Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[DrRingDing]

This business about Bernie S. denying he sent Jez a message of support - could that one turn out to be more serious than the ball of smoke over traingate?

I wonder if Jeremy Corbyn's team was socially engineered to believe Bernie Sanders had contacted them?

 

[kabbes]

Maybe the people you know are in their 20s. Most of the people I know who have gone full momentum are older.

The people *I* know are in their fifties and sixties and in some cases were part of Thatcher's QANGOs. I don't think we know the same people.

 

[Wilf]

Sorry, another retrospective interjection - also points probably made at the time when it was discussed - but I've just gone back and read the Mason piece. I'm sure he's right to regard Smith as a useful idiot for the genuine Blairite forces. He may also be right that the real phase will begin after the conference this year. However he over rationalises the positions and capacities of the Blairites. 20 years ago there was an emerging political machine that felt it had (neo-liberal) history on its side. Nowadays it's a husk, not quite a disorganised rabble - powerful people are never truly disorganised -but they certainly aren't what they were. Events will take over at some point, there may well be splits and even legal challenges. But ultimately the genuine Blairites haven't got what it takes to create a new party. Whether they have the ability to keep the soft left with them is also questionable. Think we are heading back to Butcher's points about 'they'. Where all that leaves Labour is more difficult to assess. It's a good outcome if the right were to just fuck off, but it's unlikely they well, at least with regard to sitting MPs.

 

[emanymton]

My experience in the northeast is a good spread of age ranges at the big leadership meetings, but Momentum being a bit more like you say (middles aged and older, already involved in politics/union activism - though still a few younger people).

Yep round here it is all the old labour/trade union lefties they have been around for decades. I'm not sure how true it is that lots of new people are being drawn in. There will be some obviously, but I think it might be overstated.

 

[nino_savatte]

But ultimately the genuine Blairites haven't got what it takes to create a new party

This is why I would refer to them as parasitic: they feed off the party and without their host, they're shall we say 'toast'?

 

[two sheds]

Might depend on how much funding the theys get as to how much damage they do if they lose.

 

[emanymton]

At one level I've played the role of chip-pisser on this thread, hopefully not out of some kind of ultra-leftism and I've tried to be analytical. But even from my pov as someone who isn't on board with corbynism that pretty much sums up how I feel (and some of this is about how you feel, not just what you think). Yes, definitely, in an era of defeats it feels positive not just to see the centre/right of the party losing out - just nice to see, literally, hundreds of thousands moving towards some kind of activism against neo-liberalism. The numbers signing up for Corbyn last year were staggering and genuinely unexpected.

The more critical bit of me is still wondering what the 'something' actually is. I think there are lots of potential reasons people have joined up - the notion of a simpler/less cynical politics; this being the first chance to oppose neo-liberalism in the relatively safe environment of major party politics; people worried about precarious jobs, pensions, the future - all that. The more cynical part of me wonders where all these people have been for the last 10 years and why they couldn't do actual class struggle. Yes, okay a significant number of people who were involved in anti-cuts stuff have now signed up for Corbyn, but the vast majority weren't. I also struggle to see a coherent approach in terms of re-establishing social democracy within the context of a neo-liberal world. Ditto in terms of the relationship between the party and the working class. In fact if that relationship isn't established you've simply got a few hundred thousand focusing their activity on internal battles and winning elections. I'm repeating myself from earlier posts and it's also best to admit that the treachery of the plp has created a situation where things were bound to be internally focused. Suppose in the end though, a year on, there doesn't seem to be much progress with regard to reshaping what the party is. And I think that's my ultimate problem - I'm not sure that's what the project is about.

I agree, but I'm not sure it could be any other way, it is always a lot easier to say what needs to be done than to actually do it.

This has to be better than Corbyn not getting enough nominations and Burnham winning though.

 

[Wilf]

This is why I would refer to them as parasitic: they feed off the party and without their host, they're shall we say 'toast'?

I think they've definitely got the self interest to try and carry on as a separate parliamentary block after Corbyn's victory and also to battle for the party name. Just not to do the hard slog in the country to maintain a party.

 

[nino_savatte]

I think they've definitely got the self interest to try and carry on as a separate parliamentary block after Corbyn's victory and also to battle for the party name. Just not to do the hard slog in the country to maintain a party.

They relied on the ever-dwindling numbers of working class supporters to do the work for them. That Saving Labour page giving advice on how to "organise a whelk street stall" says it all.

 

[Wilf]

I agree, but I'm not sure it could be any other way, it is always a lot easier to say what needs to be done than to actually do it.

This has to be better than Corbyn not getting enough nominations and Burnham winning though.

Yes also. The real shock was Corbyn getting all that support last year. In some ways, everything since then with the attacks on him, the treachery of the right, has all been events playing out. I still remain critical that even within this perma-crisis for the Corbyn team/Momentum there hasn't been enough of an attempt to focus on the world outside the party... but again, far from ideal circumstances to do that. Seems to me both sides are now trapped in a fatalistic logic with no obvious way out.

 

[two sheds]

And you wonder why we don't trust polling companies? Have a look at this.

No fair questions I think, could perhaps suggest another one:

Richard Branson was lying through his fucking teeth when he put the video up and it doesn't matter ...
Richard Branson was lying through his fucking teeth when he put the video up and it matters ...
Richard Branson was possibly not lying through his fucking teeth when he put the video up and it doesn't matter ...
Richard Branson was possibly not lying through his fucking teeth when he put the video up and it matters ...

 

[mauvais]

Got my vote. I see from Owen's prospectus that he's bravely nominated himself. I wasn't sure he'd have the conviction.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

What's happened here then?

"Bakers' union general secretary Ronnie Draper says he has been suspended from the #Labour party and cannot vote in the leadership election"

@skynewsbreak

 

[Wilf]

What's happened here then?

"Bakers' union general secretary Ronnie Draper says he has been suspended from the #Labour party and cannot vote in the leadership election"

@skynewsbreak

Had his membership card sliced up.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Don't give up the day job Wilf

 

[brogdale]

Don't give up the day job Wilf

He didn't knead it to vote, anyway.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Kin ell

 

[FridgeMagnet]

He's been disenflanchised?

 

[andysays]

He's toast...

 

[brogdale]

Seems reasonable, unless the party have made dreadful bloomer.

 

[Idris2002]

The cake is a lie.

 

[Mr Moose]

Just what the country needs, another Labour Party bun fight.

One he ought to win with his access to buns.

 

[brogdale]

Pita, really.

 

[Wilf]

Don't give up the day job Wilf

Probably not helping my cause to go with dough based puns then?

 

[DrRingDing]

The world scone mad!

 

[agricola]

A decision that is bound to result in a lot of pain.

 

[YouSir]

 

[brogdale]

Probably like the one they sent Shaun Woodward.

 

[Raheem]

What's happened here then?

"Bakers' union general secretary Ronnie Draper says he has been suspended from the #Labour party and cannot vote in the leadership election"

@skynewsbreak

I've always had difficulty understanding the bakers' union. They talk thirteen to the dozen.

 

[Idris2002]

I've always had difficulty understanding the bakers' union. They talk thirteen to the dozen.

They've never reached the heights they hit in the sixties, those heady days of flour power.