Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[brogdale]

That is proper dirty bullshitting about Owen's anti war stance. Filthly little toerag.

And his own...

 

[coley]

This is about neo liberalism. These people are neo liberals . You aren't, your a left wing person of some stripe . You are the enemy to these neo liberals because you are ideologically opposed to what they are about. And vice versa. that they inhabit..and have successfully colonised..a political sphere which once had a vague, tangential socialistic bent to it is immaterial to the fact they are neo liberals .

That's all that's happening .

Unfortunately Corbyn, for all his good qualities, does suffer from a lack of expertise in both co ordination and communication . That's being exploited to the hilt by the neo liberals . However I'm confident they'll lose eventually. People are sick of them , to the back teeth. And Corbyns failings can be easily addressed by a group of people who know how to do shit like that . Not a massive issue at this point I reckon .

Aye, and I'd love to agree with you ( there's always a first) but his endorsement of terrorist groups ( freedom fighters if you like) is going to be a major handicap, his anti nuclear weapons stance can be 'massaged' and his support for the Palestinians can be addressed, but his enthusiasm for MCG and JA is going to take a lot of work here on the "home front"
Personally, I hope he can manage it as I support his main policies.

 

[timeforanother]

Jez has a history of supporting groups without critisism. RCG like. I'll stick up for him anyway, I guess that is me being a bit like him. The man has an understated mettle. That is worth standing up for before any differences.

I never liked the new mayor of London. Shame on him.

 

[timeforanother]

Jez has a history of supporting groups without critisism. RCG like. I'll stick up for him anyway, I guess that is me being a bit like him. The man has an understated mettle. That is worth standing up for before any differences.

I never liked the new mayor of London. Shame on him.

He has shown that he is happy with proper debate within the party too; some things might change, but he has a long history of not selling out for careerism.

I know that won't be enough for some people here, it is good enough for me for now. nothing else has come close to making a real difference for a very long time.

 

[free spirit]

Aye, and I'd love to agree with you ( there's always a first) but his endorsement of terrorist groups ( freedom fighters if you like) is going to be a major handicap, his anti nuclear weapons stance can be 'massaged' and his support for the Palestinians can be addressed, but his enthusiasm for MCG and JA is going to take a lot of work here on the "home front"
Personally, I hope he can manage it as I support his main policies.

it's an odd line of attack to take these days when a former IRA commander has been the deputy first minister in NI for the last decade.

I'm not sure it will turn out the way those making that attack on him expect it to. The other take on it being that Corbyn was on the right side of history a decade before the rest of the party and government caught up and ended the troubles by doing a deal with the IRA that released political prisoners and put their political wing into government.

 

[coley]

He has shown that he is happy with proper debate within the party too; some things might change, but he has a long history of not selling out for careerism.

I know that won't be enough for some people here, it is good enough for me for now. nothing else has come close to making a real difference for a very long time.

I'm bothered by his support for the PIRA in years gone by, but they were effectively neutered by the GFA, it's his present policies which interest me, though he will have to introduce a more coherent defence policy than the total absence of one which he is guilty of at the moment

 

[redsquirrel]

Aye, and I'd love to agree with you ( there's always a first) but his endorsement of terrorist groups ( freedom fighters if you like) is going to be a major handicap, his anti nuclear weapons stance can be 'massaged' and his support for the Palestinians can be addressed, but his enthusiasm for MCG and JA is going to take a lot of work here on the "home front"
Personally, I hope he can manage it as I support his main policies.

Absolute cobbers, no one is going to be influenced by the IRA stuff, it simply isn't on most people's register. SF has been part of the NI gov for 20 years and McGuinness now a senior statesmen. The only people who are going to get upset about JC past on this score are loons like those in the blog linked to, which were never going to vote for him anyway.

If any of the "friendly to terrorists" claims are going to be problematic it's the Hamas and Hezbollah stuff.

 

[timeforanother]

Aye, I'm seriously looking at joining the Greens, if I'm going to be politically pointless I'd rather be environmentally positive

I studied electrical engineering. I'll tell you why the greens are wrong if you pm me (about energy and recycling; others will point out other issues; pissing in the wind rather than doing something serious to make things better doesn't suit me).

 

[coley]

it's an odd line of attack to take these days when a former IRA commander has been the deputy first minister in NI for the last decade.

I'm not sure it will turn out the way those making that attack on him expect it to. The other take on it being that Corbyn was on the right side of history a decade before the rest of the party and government caught up and ended the troubles by doing a deal with the IRA that released political prisoners and put their political wing into government.

Not really, many of us swallowed Shyte in order to see peace and security for the majority of those in NI,
Allowing a few murderers their 'freedom' (who will be under constant supervision, and encouragement to grass up their former 'comrades' ) is, when all is said and done, a small price to pay in order to let NI resume it's place in the UK.

 

[two sheds]

I studied electrical engineering. I'll tell you why the greens are wrong if you pm me (about energy and recycling; others will point out other issues; pissing in the wind rather than doing something serious to make things better doesn't suit me).

I studied electrical engineering. I'll tell you why recycling and renewable energy are good ideas if you pm me

 

[DrRingDing]

Those that are wobbling, I'd say dont expect to create change by voting alone. It you wish to destroy the cancer that is Thatcher's 'greatest acheivement' expect a war. Dig in. It's going to get a lot bloodier.

 

[butchersapron]

The masses are listening to the voice of the fens.

 

[timeforanother]

I studied electrical engineering. I'll tell you why recycling and renewable energy are good ideas if you pm me

I will! Too late now though. Got nothing against either by the way, but not council style recycling, and wind and solar aren't enough. Serious about a personal chat though. Don't want to derail this thread.

 

[butchersapron]

Tell them, tell them!

 

[YouSir]

Those that are wobbling, I'd say dont expect to create change by voting alone. It you wish to destroy the cancer that is Thatcher's 'greatest acheivement' expect a war. Dig in. It's going to get a lot bloodier.

Don't think anyone's wobbling (much), just the effects of effects of a long campaign that's getting longer. Frayed nerves, as you say - things will get a lot bloodier from a local level up as people snap and arguably more important decisions are made.

 

[timeforanother]

Don't think anyone's wobbling (much), just the effects of effects of a long campaign that's getting longer. Frayed nerves, as you say - things will get a lot bloodier from a local level up as people snap and arguably more important decisions are made.

I think the point is it won't finish at the conference. We will get more frayed.

 

[DrRingDing]

The masses are listening to the voice of the fens.

More Dennis of Grunty Fen.

 

[YouSir]

Tell them, tell them!

Have I missed something?

 

[coley]

Absolute cobbers, no one is going to be influenced by the IRA stuff, it simply isn't on most people's register. SF has been part of the NI gov for 20 years and McGuinness now a senior statesmen. The only people who are going to get upset about JC past on this score are loons like those in the blog linked to, which were never going to vote for him anyway.

If any of the "friendly to terrorists" claims are going to be problematic it's the Hamas and Hezbollah stuff.

Ok, before I reply, what's your age group? Coz I can tell you, certain age groups, ( who are still allowed the vote) (despite the remainders hostility) certainly remembers "the troubles"
And yet I can forgive Corbyn his mistakes, because the NI situation is largely settled, his domestic policies will garner him huge support but his defence policies will scupper him
Idiotic in a real sense, as the Tories "defence policies" can't even guarantee sufficient forces to defend the south coast, much less the capability to send an expeditionary force to support NATO in the event of Russia invading a newly acquired NATO statelet

 

[DrRingDing]

Have I missed something?

More than a decade of beef.

 

[YouSir]

More than a decade of beef.

Good.

 

[redsquirrel]

Ok, before I reply, what's your age group? Coz I can tell you, certain age groups, ( who are still allowed the vote) (despite the remainders hostility) certainly remembers "the troubles"

Sure but that doesn't make them an issue on which people will shift their vote. If you think NI is a live issue to the majority of England and Wales you're deluded, it's not. And for those that it is an issue for they were never going to vote for Corbyn in a million years anyway.

(I'm in my mid-30s for reference)

 

[two sheds]

(I'm in my mid-30s for reference)

well what can you expect?

 

[DotCommunist]

what's your age group? Coz I can tell you, certain age groups, ( who are still allowed the vote) (despite the remainders hostility) certainly remembers "the troubles"

I grew up in the last days of that war. Both parents soldiers. Its yesterdays war and yes the lid was put on a pot that never truly stopped boiling but the uncritical condemnation of the tactics used by BOTH sides seems to land one way whereas things like the pitchforkmurders get
nary a mention. It's part of a blanket common narrative that views ANY non state armed political groups as mindless thugs and terror wrists. We let loyalist torture gangs pull peoples fucking teeth out before they were beaten to death. They knew, 14nth int. knew. They were fucking handling them. It was a playground for agencies honing counter insurgency skills. The fucking scum of it all, makes me want to weep. What waste and war for the games?

 

[coley]

Sure but that doesn't make them an issue on which people will shift their vote. If you think NI is a live issue to the majority of England and Wales you're deluded, it's not. And for those that it is an issue for they were never going to vote for Corbyn in a million years anyway.

(I'm in my mid-30s for reference)

Agreed, 'the troubles' isn't a live 'issue' these days, but the references that the media will make to Corbyns support for 'terrorists' won't make a distinction between the burnt out, defeated PIRA and the modern day Islamic groups, will it?

 

[redsquirrel]

Agreed, 'the troubles' isn't a live 'issue' these days, but the references that the media will make to Corbyns support for 'terrorists' won't make a distinction between the burnt out, defeated PIRA and the modern day Islamic groups, will it?

But that's not what you said, you specifically pointed to NI as an issue which would cost Labour votes. The Hamas/Hezbollah might be an issue but the PIRA stuff isn't going to be.

 

[coley]

I grew up in the last days of that war. Both parents soldiers. Its yesterdays war and yes the lid was put on a pot that never truly stopped boiling but the uncritical condemnation of the tactics used by BOTH sides seems to land one way whereas things like the pitchforkmurders get
nary a mention. It's part of a blanket common narrative that views ANY non state armed political groups as mindless thugs and terror wrists. We let loyalist torture gangs pull peoples fucking teeth out before they were beaten to death. They knew, 14nth int. knew. They were fucking handling them. It was a playground for agencies honing counter insurgency skills. The fucking scum of it all, makes me want to weep. What waste and war for the games?

Aye, I wept and still do on occasion, but what me sons viewed in other parts of the world, Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan etc, makes my experiences in NI look like a walk in the park.

 

[coley]

But that's not what you said, you specifically pointed to NI as an issue which would cost Labour votes. The Hamas/Hezbollah might be an issue but the PIRA stuff isn't going to be.

Corbyns support for terrorist leaders during the troubles in NI,
Despite the fact they may be ' rehabilitated members of the political community' some may remember them as murdering terrorists, could be a bit of a speed bump for for those of us wanting to support Corbyn for his policies yet remembering 'his history'

 

[DotCommunist]

terrorist leaders

they were as much affiliated to their armed wings as the british deep state was affiliated to the loyalist gangs. No honour was earned here, if there ever was such a thing as a clean conflict outside of greek epics. Warrenpoint is remembered as a great tragedy as is bloody sunday. Who won? Who really won? Who did terror while wearing the face of legitimacy because 'we are the Official Army and everyone else is a crim'? Fucking idiocy. All that blood for nothing.

 

[redsquirrel]

Despite the fact they may be ' rehabilitated members of the political community' some may remember them as murdering terrorists,'

The people remembering them as that would never have voted for Labour under Corbyn anyway