Jeremy Corbyn's time is up
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Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I'm sure that's right, but that amounts to 'there might just be a route for arguing they did a legal thing'. There's nothing in any of this that suggested they should try out a 6 month previous date as the freeze date, which was obviously a political choice. Even if they were to win an appeal there's nothing here that makes them look any better.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Incidentally, what was the freeze date for full members in the Labour London Mayoral vote? I've looked round a few sites and all I found was Labour reining back on a promise to let 3 quidders sign up right till voting day. In the end they were given 12 days - which was of course shrunk to 2 days in the current shitfest.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
the former is what you strive for in any writing, but especially in fiction. Make them feel. The latter is the sheer arrogance to believe you can just mould reaction by speech. It might work sometimes and I question how often thats down to social circumstances anyway. But the linguistic voodoo? get to fuck. Makes me think of freemen on the land and their inane belief that noises coming out of cake holes have any binding relevance unless you can back it up by force of arms
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
The thing is that there is no academic literature to back up any of the NLP claims, and a wealth of evidence which shows what a scam it is yet it is a very widely believed in. Councils pay for it, corporations pay their 'trainers' and 'teachers' to go on NLP courses, and then they patronise poor captive audiences of employees lower down the corporate hierarchy. What gets me is that these people who invest so much belief into NLP don't, you know, fucking google it to find out about it. How intellectually uncurious do you have to be to not do that?
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mauvais
on reddit or something
It 'hinges on freeze dates' in so far as the whole thing is inherently about them, and then they become a specific point of argument as to reasonable interpretation. However the judgment is fundamentally about contractual expectations and whether anything afforded the NEC the opportunity to belatedly set a cutoff.
It's only because five people challenged it that we have this ruling. Presumably noone challenged previous exclusions, so hardly a sound foundation for precedent.
Also it's not clear to me that there have been prior retrospective restrictions, rather than 'prospective' as they call it, i.e. where you can't sign up after the process begins.
This time, however, I do agree that it wasn't (isn't, less sure) cut & dried.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
This suggests full members had the right to vote right up till the 12th August i.e. it didn't create a precedent for anything like the January thing in the current election. People could join as a member, become a 3 quidder or do it via other organisations/unions all on the same day.
Mayoral and Leadership timetable
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
In fact in the London vote - link I just posted - you could join/get a vote right up till the very last logistical point in the process (when ballots were about to go out).
wheelie_bin
Well-Known Member
For the 2015 leadership elections, the NEC set out the timetable on 13th May, with a cut off on 13th August.
Wiki says London mayoral was 12th August for 10th September vote. Originally NEC said 20th May for the freeze (<4 months), then on 17th March they extended it to June 12th (3 months)
(NEC extends deadline for supporters to register for London Mayoral Primary | LabourList). I don't know when that extended again.
If it were to be six months membership enforcement, that would logically under standard definition of terms be 21st March cut-off, but the NEC will struggle to prove their need for that given that they gave extra time in multiple other elections. More than 2 days, sure. More than 8 months to final voting, no. At the moment it falls under the category of "arbitrary", which company law doesn't tend to like when money has changed hands to form a contract and there's a retrospective change. Looking at the dates, I don't see why a judge would uphold the appeal.
Wiki says London mayoral was 12th August for 10th September vote. Originally NEC said 20th May for the freeze (<4 months), then on 17th March they extended it to June 12th (3 months)
(NEC extends deadline for supporters to register for London Mayoral Primary | LabourList). I don't know when that extended again.
If it were to be six months membership enforcement, that would logically under standard definition of terms be 21st March cut-off, but the NEC will struggle to prove their need for that given that they gave extra time in multiple other elections. More than 2 days, sure. More than 8 months to final voting, no. At the moment it falls under the category of "arbitrary", which company law doesn't tend to like when money has changed hands to form a contract and there's a retrospective change. Looking at the dates, I don't see why a judge would uphold the appeal.
wheelie_bin
Well-Known Member
All that said, given that there are now new NEC members, perhaps they could just meet again, vote in a fixed admin period such as 2 weeks prior to ballot paper issue and set a new cut-off date accordingly. There's clear precedence for them changing the dates anyway from last year and it saves the waste of money on appeal.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
They'll certainly need to meet to respond to the court decision. They might even go completely mad and allow the CLPs to have normal meetings.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
When I was a Labour member - half a lifetime ago, thankfully - I have a vague memory they used to announce the new NEC at the conference. Have they brought the process forward now? What I'm getting at is do the newly elected bods join the NEC now or wait till September?
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
... answered my own question - it is September (buried in this piece):
Corbyn consolidates grip on Labour with high court and NEC successes
So, the current NEC can still fuck about for a bit longer.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Yes, but other bits of the NEC might change before then - or not of course. Presumably the unions and other groups who have reps are currently going through their own elections to select their reps.
mauvais
on reddit or something
As I understand it, and I may be wrong, all of these dates were after the timetable was announced, so prospective, no matter how far in advance they may have been of the actual voting.
This is distinct from declaring an election and immediately saying that some members are already ineligible to vote.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
oh I know its the preserve of managment cultists and rapists
timeforanother
Cynic, and loves it when people are just lovely.
I thought I was being sensible to go into the private sector (I'm an electronics engineer, now doing software). Thatch looked like she was going to destroy the public sector, but she just destroyed industry.
So having suffered from the dot com crash, commoditisation and globalisation, outsourcing and the financial crisis, I have no pension or property (I'm quite good at what I do too).
I know I'm not the only one without anything to fall back on, who is going to have to work till they drop.
Sometimes I wish I went to work for the council in one of those jobs that don't add to the GDP. Or the NHS, or whatever that doesn't need to be better than the other workplaces; being better includes the people selling the stuff we make and managers who have a clue and care about what they are doing.
So bollocks to tricking people into thinking they are better as a long time solution. We need to actually make them better. Give them chances to make a decent life, and not be stressed to death.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
don't hold out on me. I need links
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
While the Israel lobbyist/arms dealer/shit comedian have a meltdown, Corbyn takes a moment to reflect...
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
oh a Roman Empire reference to look good. Problem is they have been stabbing him with rubber dagger long since march and finding to their extreme frustration that corbyn is made out of iron and cannot be slain by rubber daggers. Loving this tbf, nearly the entire plp despises what he stands for (got questions meself tbh but he's at least onside) yet nearly the entire rest of the party think C-Byn is a god. Going to court over wether your members can vote, fuck me. I'll say gold plated Corbz of iron cannot lose a leadership battle. But a house divided is never a good look and these cunts will tank a GE result rather than give ground. 60k a year before you touch expenses
teqniq
DisMembered
That is the problem right there. Entitled snouts in the trough and all that.
timeforanother
Cynic, and loves it when people are just lovely.
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