Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[teuchter]

I think you're being an ignorant fuckwit. Goodbye.

Clearly you're in a good position to advise politicians on how to "connect with ordinary people".

 

[squirrelp]

It's those dodgy Blairist type soundbites, slogan and alliteration that everyone's fucking sick to the stomach of raising it's ugly head again.

"Putting into practice our principles"

"We win not to trade our principles for power but to transact those principle into power. I will trade my socialist principles for noone"

Linguistically that last sentence is really interesting. Firstly he's using unvoiced plosives - which are basically "power syllables". Unvoiced means they don't resonate in the voice box - unvoiced plosives are safer to use with microphones because the voiced ones can cause serious distortion way more easily. Voiced once tend to sound more aggressive to (Bs, Ds, Gs).

The second thing that's interesting in the repetition of syllables (and therefore the necessary use of the word transact) and omission of the P on the final word. TPP,TPP, TP...N? It leaves the listener surprised, and is more likely to stick.

I bet they took a week to come up with it.

Anyway, just some loose thoughts.

To be fair, you will be able to find rhetorical devices from Corbyn, he makes very full use of the 'three-part list' in particular, which he surely does consciously e.g. from his leadership launch he produces a stream of them.

"Come September, when this election is done and dusted,
there will still be a Tory government in office,
there will still be grotesque levels of inequality in our society,
there will still be parts of this country that are 'left-behind Britain'.

It's the job,
it's the duty,
it's the responsibility of every Labour MP to get behind the party at that point, and put it there, against the Tories, about the

different,
fairer,
kinder Britain that we can build together

Oldie but a goodie.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's those dodgy Blairist type soundbites, slogan and alliteration that everyone's fucking sick to the stomach of raising it's ugly head again.

"Putting into practice our principles"

"We win not to trade our principles for power but to transact those principle into power. I will trade my socialist principles for noone"

Linguistically that last sentence is really interesting. Firstly he's using unvoiced plosives - which are basically "power syllables". Unvoiced means they don't resonate in the voice box - unvoiced plosives are safer to use with microphones because the voiced ones can cause serious distortion way more easily. Voiced once tend to sound more aggressive to (Bs, Ds, Gs).

The second thing that's interesting in the repetition of syllables (and therefore the necessary use of the word transact) and omission of the P on the final word. TPP,TPP, TP...N? It leaves the listener surprised, and is more likely to stick.

I bet they took a week to come up with it.

Anyway, just some loose thoughts.

Great work. I just learned something.

 

[free spirit]

The NEC is going to appeal. What a disgrace.

they're probably appealing in a vain attempt to protect the idea that the NEC can interpret the rules however it wants.

In a way it may be good that they're appealing as it will settle that crap argument and make it clear that the NEC should follow and interpret the rules as they're written not make them up as they go along.

 

[killer b]

As everyone was so keen on Jo Maugham's legal opinion when he agreed with them, his opinion on this might be of interest (he thinks the judgment is wrong. I've no idea, but it's worth reading why whatever IMO - he expands in the thread of tweets following this initial tweet)

 

[Combustible]

It wasn't the charging of £25 that was found to be unlawful. That isn't what the case was about.

What was found to be unlawful is denying a vote in the leadership election to paid-up full members of the Labour Party. So the ruling is that members must be allowed to vote.

The judge only ordered the repayment of the £25 because it shouldn't have been taken from the members who paid it.

Yes I know that the court ruled that denying the post January members a vote was unlawful. However the judge did not directly order that they be given a vote. It seems that David Allen Green made the same point, but he also points out that the claimants could proceed with further court action if they are not happy with the NEC's response, so it would be mad for the NEC not to change the rules and let all the members vote. In which case all is good.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Why the fuck are they going to appeal? Its cut and dried. What are they hoping to achive other than to spunk away yet more party funds to try and disenfranchise the membership - when its clear that owen is going to lose handsomely even with the post jan joiners excluded.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

To be fair, you will be able to find rhetorical devices from Corbyn, he makes very full use of the 'three-part list' in particular, which he surely does consciously e.g. from his leadership launch he produces a stream of them.

"Come September, when this election is done and dusted,
there will still be a Tory government in office,
there will still be grotesque levels of inequality in our society,
there will still be parts of this country that are 'left-behind Britain'.

It's the job,
it's the duty,
it's the responsibility of every Labour MP to get behind the party at that point, and put it there, against the Tories, about the

different,
fairer,
kinder Britain that we can build together

Oldie but a goodie.

Absolutely, I was going to mention it and then I forgot to write it. Using triplets in public speech is the oldest trick in the book. Works wonders too.

I don't know how many people pick up on these sorts of things. But yes, Corbyn isn't at all immune, however I rather suspect that he does it as having picked it up from being in politics for 30 years, , Smith I reckon has a group of writers coming up with this shite.

Obviously part of being great politically I'd being gifted rhetorically. Owens stuff is bland as fuck and relies heavily on alliteration tricks without actually saying much.

 

[maomao]

Absolutely, I was going to mention it and then I forgot to write it. Using triplets in public speech is the oldest trick in the book. Works wonders too.

I don't know how many people pick up on these sorts of things. But yes, Corbyn isn't at all immune, however I rather suspect that he does it as having picked it up from being in politics for 30 years, , Smith I reckon has a group of writers coming up with this shite.

Obviously part of being great politically I'd being gifted rhetorically. Owens stuff is bland as fuck and relies heavily on alliteration tricks without actually saying much.

There's also a world of difference between writing a speech with attractive and memorable rhythm and cadence to try and keep people's attention and the murky world of advertising speak where linguistic tricks are taught at £500 seminars.

 

[killer b]

Why the fuck are they going to appeal? Its cut and dried.

It hinges on freeze dates, which have been applied retrospectively in recent selection processes (mayoral candidates etc) with no fuss at all. And then there was the stuff on the LP website, which made voting in a leadership election one of the attractions of signing up, without any mention of freeze dates - I suppose what they're thrashing out is whether the website text or the rulebook (or an interpretation of the rulebook anyway) applies.

Either way, as ever it isn't actually clear cut.

 

[wheelie_bin]

As everyone was so keen on Jo Maugham's legal opinion when he agreed with them, his opinion on this might be of interest (he thinks the judgment is wrong. I've no idea, but it's worth reading why whatever IMO - he expands in the thread of tweets following this initial tweet)

He's a QC, so undoubtedly his knowledge of company law is a bazillion miles better than mine, but I think this is "ex post facto" (the term for restrospective application of a law or rule). When applying to court, in absence of other legal framework or specific company laws / existing membership organisation rules, judges move to common law, which apparently "frowns upon" any retrospective application: ex post facto law. So, unless there's specific case law that he knows about that I can't find on Google, I think he's wrong in this case.

 

[YouSir]

Clean sweep for the Left in NEC vote apparently National Executive Committee elections 2016

Now let's all laugh at Luke Akehurst.

 

[Mation]

Yes I know that the court ruled that denying the post January members a vote was unlawful. However the judge did not directly order that they be given a vote. It seems that David Allen Green made the same point, but he also points out that the claimants could proceed with further court action if they are not happy with the NEC's response, so it would be mad for the NEC not to change the rules and let all the members vote. In which case all is good.

Ok, I see what you mean. But how could the judge order the NEC to allow all members to vote? The NEC hasn't yet done anything illegal, in that the vote has happened yet. I can see that if the vote had already taken place and only pre-12 Jan voters had been sent a ballot that the judge could make some order on what action the NEC would have to take for the vote to be valid... Does the court have the power to order action where no illegal action has taken place?

 

[timeforanother]

Corbyn might be able to improve his rhetoric, but a big part of his appeal is the lack of speachifying, just being the honest bloke with the spotless record.

Hopefully the party will return 25 quids with no arguement, but offer making a donation to campaigning, or downpayment on full membership for next time (if the leadership thing goes right). It would be cool if they get a breakdown of what the 25ers prefer.

NEC ballot ends today. My eldest daughter voted for the right slate .

In other news Tom W seems to be deleting his social media comments, because the replies are so (politely) hostile (including mine).

 

[cantsin]

Clean sweep for the Left in NEC vote apparently National Executive Committee elections 2016

Now let's all laugh at Luke Akehurst.

boy, I hope this is the case - am blocked by Akehurst, would be great to see his twitter response if anyone had time /inclination ?

 

[YouSir]

boy, I hope this is the case - am blocked by Akehurst, would be great to see his twitter response if anyone had time /inclination ?

e2a: Crying on the inside at least I hope.

 

[timeforanother]

boy, I hope this is the case - am blocked by Akehurst, would be great to see his twitter response if anyone had time /inclination ?

1. 
   
   
2. 
   Olly Hudson ‏@OWHudson 5m5 minutes ago
   At what Labour moderates strategy meeting was it ever thought to be a good idea to run Luke Akehurst for NEC?
   
   0 retweets 0 likes
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
3. 
   
   
4. 
   Presley Hoolahan ‏@Mr_Considerate 10m10 minutes ago
   ‘What? Akehurst not on NEC? Launch strike now. Now I tell you!’
   
   
   
   
   1 retweet 4 likes
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
5. 
   
   
6. 
   keewa ‏@keewa 14m14 minutes ago
   Akehurst climbs into his taxi, the sad Incredible Hulk music begins to play
   
   1 retweet 2 likes
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
7. 
   
   
8. 
   Nick Barlow ‏@nickjbarlow 15m15 minutes ago
   Well, at least I won't get any more Vote Luke Akehurst ads on my Facebook feed. (And no idea why I was getting them)
   
   0 retweets 2 likes
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
9. 
   
   
10. 
    prst skrz krk ‏@prstskrzkrk 17m17 minutes ago
    congratulations to Luke Akehurst on 12th place in the NEC elections! a solid foundation to build on
    
    0 retweets 2 likes
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
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12. 
    Jonathan ‏@poundstoremike 17m17 minutes ago
    Luke Akehurst just casually chatting to himself dressed as a soldier.
    
    
    
    
    0 retweets 10 likes
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
13. 
    
    
14. 
    Derek Wall ‏@Anothergreen 23m23 minutes ago
    Luke Akehurst off of the Labour NEC.
    
    8 retweets 11 likes
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
15. 
    
    
16. 
    Isobel ‏@Isobel_waby 25m25 minutes ago
    Isobel Retweeted Red Labour
    
    YEAH...... fantastic... tell me Akehurst DID NOT get a look in... sicko was picking an office for himself.
    
    Isobel added,
    
    
    Red Labour @Redlabour2016
    LP NEC officers. BLACK Elected SHAWCROFT Elected WEBBE Elected…
    1 retweet 2 likes
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
17. 
    
    
18. 
    Jamie ‏@GreenJamieS 33m33 minutes ago
    The 6th candidate elected got just under 82,000, Luke Akehurst just over 48,600. Not even close lad.
    
    
    
    
    2 retweets 8 likes
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
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20. 
    Rev. Paul Farnhill ‏@RevPaulCA 34m34 minutes ago
    Delighted to see Luke Akehurst wasn't elected. #LabourNEC
    
    0 retweets 5 likes
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
21. 
    
    
22. 
    MARTIN ‏@AsifitsMartin 35m35 minutes ago
    Can only assume that when they nicknamed Mars 'the red planet', they hadn't seen Luke Akehurst's head.
    
    3 retweets 1 like
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
23. 
    
    
24. In reply to The Labour Party
    EllyS ‏@BDSJustice 35m35 minutes ago
    @UKLabour Israel lobbyist Luke Akehurst only got 48,632 votes. Great result!
    
    5 retweets 12 likes
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
25. 
    
    
26. 
    Ben Gartside ‏@BenGartside98 37m37 minutes ago
    All that's happened is that it's business as usua, but we're all pleasantly surprised how many people like Luke Akehurst.
    
    1 retweet 3 likes
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
27. 
    
    
28. 
    Lаuга ‏@krasnyy_ 41m41 minutes ago
    luke akehurst was 12th
    
    3 retweets 7 likes
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
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30. 
    Luke Akehurst ‏@lukeakehurst 44m44 minutes ago
    And in other news the brilliant @aliceperryuk and @nick_forbes held the 2 councillor seats on the NEC by a huge margin
    
    12 retweets 22 likes
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
31. 
    
    
32. 
    Luke Akehurst ‏@lukeakehurst 47m47 minutes ago
    Thank you to the 48,632 members who voted for me. I will not give up the fight to save Labour and I ask you all to stay in Labour and fight.
    
    35 retweets 114 likes
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

 

[Mation]

MY EYES!!!!

 

[Mation]

Ok, I see what you mean. But how could the judge order the NEC to allow all members to vote? The NEC hasn't yet done anything illegal, in that the vote has happened yet. I can see that if the vote had already taken place and only pre-12 Jan voters had been sent a ballot that the judge could make some order on what action the NEC would have to take for the vote to be valid... Does the court have the power to order action where no illegal action has taken place?

I've just been corrected in the (closed!!) Vauxhall Labour group on Facearse from 'illegal' to 'unlawful' by someone whose position I'm thinking most uncomradely thoughts about.

 

[killer b]

He's a QC, so undoubtedly his knowledge of company law is a bazillion miles better than mine, but I think this is "ex post facto" (the term for restrospective application of a law or rule). When applying to court, in absence of other legal framework or specific company laws / existing membership organisation rules, judges move to common law, which apparently "frowns upon" any retrospective application: ex post facto law. So, unless there's specific case law that he knows about that I can't find on Google, I think he's wrong in this case.

as mentioned above, apparently freeze dates have been applied in other recent LP selection contests, and commonly have been in the past. FWIW I don't have any problem with the principle of excluding very recent members from a leadership election - but in this case there's the promise made on the website to new sign-ups which did explicitly say they would be able to vote, and the option for non-members to pay to vote - in the light of these it's morally indefensible to try and exclude new members. Not legally though, by the looks of it.

 

[cantsin]

Joanne Baxter , booted off after her lies re: the intimidation at the Corbyn / on the Ballot NEC meeting

 

[Cid]

Ok, I see what you mean. But how could the judge order the NEC to allow all members to vote? The NEC hasn't yet done anything illegal, in that the vote has happened yet. I can see that if the vote had already taken place and only pre-12 Jan voters had been sent a ballot that the judge could make some order on what action the NEC would have to take for the vote to be valid... Does the court have the power to order action where no illegal action has taken place?

Illegality means something specific in contract law, best to avoid using it. The court could either issue a mandatory injunction (an injunction making someone do something) or order specific performance (make them carry out their contractual obligations). These tend to be alternatives to damages, but in this case the damages seem to be for the additional £25 rather than the membership - i.e it's clearly implied that the membership should allow a vote (or the court might also have offered refund of that). I've not read any detail on the judgment so no idea why neither of those remedies has been used - possibly it is just because the vote hasn't started yet and that part of the contract hasn't been technically been breached. Have to see what happens I suppose.

 

[Cid]

Joanne Baxter , booted off after her lies re: the intimidation at the Corbyn / on the Ballot NEC meeting

Johanna.

 

[killer b]

Joanne Baxter , booted off after her lies re: the intimidation at the Corbyn / on the Ballot NEC meeting

She was off anyway - no-one who wasn't on the left slate stood a chance. I notice that Willsman was the lowest placed of the winners - didn't Baxter imply he was a misogynist beast in her article for proposing they all leave their mobile phones outside? Wonder if that's the effect a slur like that can have (or maybe there's other reasons - but I find it unlikely many people do anything other than vote for a slate in this kind of election)

 

[killer b]

(actually maybe it wasn't baxter who wrote the article I'm thinking of - can't remember who did though)

 

[timeforanother]

She was off anyway - no-one who wasn't on the left slate stood a chance. I notice that Willsman was the lowest placed of the winners - didn't Baxter imply he was a misogynist beast in her article for proposing they all leave their mobile phones outside? Wonder if that's the effect a slur like that can have (or maybe there's other reasons - but I find it unlikely many people do anything other than vote for a slate in this kind of election)

My daughter didn't know who to vote for. There wasn't much information floating around.

 

[killer b]

no, no-one knew who to vote for. That's why the left slate wiped the floor with everyone else.

 

[wheelie_bin]

as mentioned above, apparently freeze dates have been applied in other recent LP selection contests, and commonly have been in the past. FWIW I don't have any problem with the principle of excluding very recent members from a leadership election - but in this case there's the promise made on the website to new sign-ups which did explicitly say they would be able to vote, and the option for non-members to pay to vote - in the light of these it's morally indefensible to try and exclude new members. Not legally though, by the looks of it.

That's irrelevant if they weren't ex post facto, I.e. barred from voting AFTER they joined. Last year for example, the freeze date was set in advance and was long after nominations according to the dates on wiki:

• Tuesday 9 June 2015 – Nominations open
• Wednesday 12 August 2015 (15:00) – Last date to join as member, affiliated support or registered supporter and be able to vote
• Friday 14 August 2015 – Ballot papers are sent out

 

[killer b]

I know what happened last year.

 

[ViolentPanda]

'Can I have my £25 back please'
- Well, we could give you a credit note for the next challenge to Corbyn.
'No thanks I'll have my £25 back'
- Okay, what about if we throw in one month's Netflix?
'No, £25 please'
- Would a massage from Neil Kinnock seal the deal?

'Now I want £50. £25 refund, and £25 damages for the mental trauma you just put me through with your Kinnock offer'.