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Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

The numbers at the corbyn rallies seem to indicate that Corbyn's support base has increased since the last leadership elections. Take the Leeds event last night as an example, last time he sold out the royal armouries biggest hall, this time he sold it out and had 1500 people outside the place who couldn't get in.

And that's on the same day as he spoke at a huge rally in Hull, another in York and had 1500 people marching in support of him in Newcastle. So it's not like the supporters were being bussed in from surrounding areas too much.

I can't remember any politician in my lifetime being able to draw anything like those crowds to events around the country as Corbyn.

Someone elsewhere said that Michael Foot was also drawing big crowds but then lost badly.... conveniently missing the role in that played by those who left Labour to form the SDP. Obviously that was Foot's fault, just as Corbyn's being blamed now for potentially splitting the labour party, rather than those who're considering breaking away.
I love that the coup attempt is having the reverse effect the establishment wanted by creating a surge of active support for Corbyn.

I can't remember any UK politician having this effect either. You generally go to pelt tomatoes at the guys.

The Michael Foot situation is not to be compared straight. Firstly, we didn't have social media then. Secondly, Thatcher had a huge boost from the Falklands conflict. Thirdly, privitisation, market-worshipping, Thatcherist policy may have resonated well in the 1980s, but we are all wiser now. Things like British Rail don't seem like such a bad idea. Nor does the idea of 'society'. Maybe the baby was thrown out with the bathwater. Fourthly, while Foot may have been a great intellectual and orator, Corbyn has some utterly exceptional qualities which I doubt Foot had - he has an incredible talent for relating to people and reducing complex matters to simple ones (so much better than appearing obviously 'intellectual'). This shines through despite him maybe a bit rough around the edges and not a slick presenter and however much he might get hammered in PMQs.

Was Michael Foot ever described (however incorrectly) as a 'cult leader'?
 
I note you don't mention the 300k or so extra members who've joined because of Corbyn,
30,691,680 people voted in 2015.

Arguing with me on a forum full of people who think revolutionary Marxism is the way forward is not going to change much.

Warwick and Leamington (UK Parliament constituency) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Conservative Christopher Mark Francis White 24,249 47.9 +5.4
Labour Lynnette Kelly 17,643 34.9 -0.5
UKIP Alastair MacBrayne[6] 4,183 8.3 +6.4
Liberal Democrat Haseeb Arif 2,512 5.0 -13.3
Green Azzees Minott 1,994 3.9 +2.1

Labour lost Warwick and Leamington by about 6606 votes. So they need something like 3303 people who voted Tory in '15 to change their mind or a combination of some of those 3303 people to switch plus an larger number to vote Labour than any prompted to move to the Tories. Warwick and Leamington was one of the most marginal seats in 2005, its the kind of seat Labour need to be winning to be in government.

Either people want Labour to be in government or they just want someone who can get onto the national press to validate their personal beliefs by repeating them from a stage that has national attention.

May 2020 is coming. The millions of people needed are not reading Urban 75, they are not reading your social media updates, they are not thinking the neoliberal consensus has inhibited the road to socialist nirvana.

And then their is boundary changes.
And the SNP\Lab coalition barrier, (you have to look like you will beat the Cons by more than the SNPs number of seats for people not to hesitate over an SNP\Lab government)

People want to play the grown up version of politics in which you actually try to form a big enough coalition of voters you get to form a government, then its time to ditch the conspiracies and hostility and work on a program for government that 11 million people will find acceptable.

Or you can all just entertain yourself for the next (just short of 4 years) and hurl abuse at everyone who disagrees with you.

Politics eh. Its all fun and games until suddenly you have to win an election.
 
30,691,680 people voted in 2015.

Arguing with me on a forum full of people who think revolutionary Marxism is the way forward is not going to change much.

Warwick and Leamington (UK Parliament constituency) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Conservative Christopher Mark Francis White 24,249 47.9 +5.4
Labour Lynnette Kelly 17,643 34.9 -0.5
UKIP Alastair MacBrayne[6] 4,183 8.3 +6.4
Liberal Democrat Haseeb Arif 2,512 5.0 -13.3
Green Azzees Minott 1,994 3.9 +2.1

Labour lost Warwick and Leamington by about 6606 votes. So they need something like 3303 people who voted Tory in '15 to change their mind or a combination of some of those 3303 people to switch plus an larger number to vote Labour than any prompted to move to the Tories. Warwick and Leamington was one of the most marginal seats in 2005, its the kind of seat Labour need to be winning to be in government.

Either people want Labour to be in government or they just want someone who can get onto the national press to validate their personal beliefs by repeating them from a stage that has national attention.

May 2020 is coming. The millions of people needed are not reading Urban 75, they are not reading your social media updates, they are not thinking the neoliberal consensus has inhibited the road to socialist nirvana.

And then their is boundary changes.
And the SNP\Lab coalition barrier, (you have to look like you will beat the Cons by more than the SNPs number of seats for people not to hesitate over an SNP\Lab government)

People want to play the grown up version of politics in which you actually try to form a big enough coalition of voters you get to form a government, then its time to ditch the conspiracies and hostility and work on a program for government that 11 million people will find acceptable.

Or you can all just entertain yourself for the next (just short of 4 years) and hurl abuse at everyone who disagrees with you.

Politics eh. Its all fun and games until suddenly you have to win an election.

You soft cunt. 'Grown up politics' is people fighting for their livelihoods. Fighting to keep their heads above water. Not selling out workers to get a poxy Labour government.
 
ferrelhadley I see you missed the point about the impact on Labour's finances and campaigning capacity from this huge increase in membership.

Last election Milliband aimed to have 4 million conversations - ie 4 million doors knocked by canvassers. If the membership is trebled and that new enthused membership is worked with and trained up this number could also be trebled.

I know in this constituency Labour didn't have the numbers to mount an effective campaign across the entire constituency, their posterboards only made it to around 2/3 of the constituency and they apparently had to resort to paying to have some of their leaflets delivered.

Extra members should equal extra votes come the election if the local parties welcome them in and work with them properly rather than viewing them as some sort of left wing infiltrators and hoping they'll go away soon.
 
btw ferrelhadley in the July IPSO Mori polling Labour were 5% ahead of the tories on 38% to 33% based on all respondents. It was only when they adjusted the figures based on likelihood of voting / whether they voted at the last election that the poll then showed the Tories in a 1% lead.

Corbyn can win by persuading the people to vote who stopped voting entirely after Blair's first election victory. Those figures clearly show that he's appealing to that section of the population, and in sufficient numbers to win an election by a significant margin as long as they can be motivated to get out to the polling station (which a trebbling of the membership should help with).
 
I still reckon he should come out fully in favour of Brexit. Vote winner, believe me.
I agree that's what he should've done.

Really comical how the Labour right accuse Corbyn of only being in touch with the metropolitan elite, and out of touch with the working-class, while they are the biggest cheerleaders of the EU and attack him for being too tepid in his support for it. Stupid cunts.
 
You can all hunker down in your echo chamber, smelling each others farts and declaring it Chanel No 5 for the 3 years 9 months. You can sit weeping at the cruelty of the world that does not appreciate the beneficent magnanimity of your holy leader. But in 2020 you will have to face the electorate. If you have not put together a range of policies that millions who did not trust Labour in the economy in 2015 find convincing, do not alienate people who have doubts about your leaderships patriotism and commitment to defending the nation and its values, have a set of changes to employment legislation that does not scare people into thinking a return to the 70s and a host of other issues that form the complex psychological mix that informs peoples voting then you will have pissed away the one shot the left will get in your self indulgence and vanity and the people of this country will get another 5 years of tory rule.

If that is the case and given the fact that the politics of New Labour/Blairites is exactly the same as the Tories, why not give up on Labour altogether and accept perpetual Tory rule?

At least then your rotten politics would have some degree of honesty and consistency to it.
 
It's very generous of Mason to stop wanking over supermarket self checkouts long enough to deliver the brilliant electoral strategy of 'just lie and promise a ton of stuff to everyone that you won't deliver'. Labour should also emulate Podemos and Syriza. Apparently Podemos, who from what I've heard haven't done very well, prove that Labour doesn't need to worry about swing voters. Or something like that.

I also liked his insight into the composition of the right:

bizarre :D

Best of all, Labour should 'if possible' make an alliance with the Lib Dems. The Lib Dems!

Mason makes a fool of himself yet again. I still wonder why this idiot gets so much time from the political left for his half-baked 'ideas'?
 
30,691,680 people voted in 2015.

Arguing with me on a forum full of people who think revolutionary Marxism is the way forward is not going to change much.

Warwick and Leamington (UK Parliament constituency) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Conservative Christopher Mark Francis White 24,249 47.9 +5.4
Labour Lynnette Kelly 17,643 34.9 -0.5
UKIP Alastair MacBrayne[6] 4,183 8.3 +6.4
Liberal Democrat Haseeb Arif 2,512 5.0 -13.3
Green Azzees Minott 1,994 3.9 +2.1

Labour lost Warwick and Leamington by about 6606 votes. So they need something like 3303 people who voted Tory in '15 to change their mind or a combination of some of those 3303 people to switch plus an larger number to vote Labour than any prompted to move to the Tories. Warwick and Leamington was one of the most marginal seats in 2005, its the kind of seat Labour need to be winning to be in government.

Either people want Labour to be in government or they just want someone who can get onto the national press to validate their personal beliefs by repeating them from a stage that has national attention.

May 2020 is coming. The millions of people needed are not reading Urban 75, they are not reading your social media updates, they are not thinking the neoliberal consensus has inhibited the road to socialist nirvana.

And then their is boundary changes.
And the SNP\Lab coalition barrier, (you have to look like you will beat the Cons by more than the SNPs number of seats for people not to hesitate over an SNP\Lab government)

People want to play the grown up version of politics in which you actually try to form a big enough coalition of voters you get to form a government, then its time to ditch the conspiracies and hostility and work on a program for government that 11 million people will find acceptable.

Or you can all just entertain yourself for the next (just short of 4 years) and hurl abuse at everyone who disagrees with you.

Politics eh. Its all fun and games until suddenly you have to win an election.
Go boil ya head ya dullard. Don't you pricks get it? If the plank of wood offered up as Corbyn's challenger wins the leadership contest then I don't give a fuck if labour get in government or not because it makes no difference to me and millions of other people. All I got from labour was war and tens of thousands of pounds worth of debt. I don't even get tax credits as I can't get enough hours. Oh but woo minimum wage what a grand fucking policy, worthless when it's wiped out by high rent and the introduction of local housing allowance, another wonderful fucking labour policy. So no I don't give a shit if labour drowns after this because they're nothing to me and never have been. Policies like those put up by Corbyn punch a hole in all this bullshit, they won't make my life grand, they won't have me farting rainbows but it's a start. It's that or business as usual despite what pricks like you wanna say otherwise, I've heard it all before and I'm no longer listening.
 
30,691,680 people voted in 2015.

Arguing with me on a forum full of people who think revolutionary Marxism is the way forward is not going to change much.

Warwick and Leamington (UK Parliament constituency) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Conservative Christopher Mark Francis White 24,249 47.9 +5.4
Labour Lynnette Kelly 17,643 34.9 -0.5
UKIP Alastair MacBrayne[6] 4,183 8.3 +6.4
Liberal Democrat Haseeb Arif 2,512 5.0 -13.3
Green Azzees Minott 1,994 3.9 +2.1

Labour lost Warwick and Leamington by about 6606 votes. So they need something like 3303 people who voted Tory in '15 to change their mind or a combination of some of those 3303 people to switch plus an larger number to vote Labour than any prompted to move to the Tories. Warwick and Leamington was one of the most marginal seats in 2005, its the kind of seat Labour need to be winning to be in government.

Either people want Labour to be in government or they just want someone who can get onto the national press to validate their personal beliefs by repeating them from a stage that has national attention.

May 2020 is coming. The millions of people needed are not reading Urban 75, they are not reading your social media updates, they are not thinking the neoliberal consensus has inhibited the road to socialist nirvana.

And then their is boundary changes.
And the SNP\Lab coalition barrier, (you have to look like you will beat the Cons by more than the SNPs number of seats for people not to hesitate over an SNP\Lab government)

People want to play the grown up version of politics in which you actually try to form a big enough coalition of voters you get to form a government, then its time to ditch the conspiracies and hostility and work on a program for government that 11 million people will find acceptable.

Or you can all just entertain yourself for the next (just short of 4 years) and hurl abuse at everyone who disagrees with you.

Politics eh. Its all fun and games until suddenly you have to win an election.
I doubt there are many 'revolutionary Marxists' on here. I'm not a Corbyn supporter or a Labour supporter at all, but I am a bit puzzled that you seem to think you're talking to the people responsible for Labour Party policy (revolutionary Marxists?) and that we ought to be working on a 'programme of government' :D. I reckon we could get one sorted on this thread though if you like, then maybe we'll email it to Jeremy.

You pompous arse.
 
Mason makes a fool of himself yet again. I still wonder why this idiot gets so much time from the political left for his half-baked 'ideas'?
half baked ideas and the political left are a famous combination tbf

I guess maybe it's similar to why Russell Brand had that spell of popularity a little while ago. If you experience being political as alienation it's a way to feel like you're not on your own. There's people in the media on your side.
 
it's terrible, isn't it.

corbyn taking the labour party to such depths after the triumphs in the 2010 and 2015 elections...
Yes, it seems there is massive denial about this on the labour right. They lost twice to Shiny Poshboy and his even more unimpressive second in command, Posh Sneer. But they can't ask themselves why. It's much easier to attack Corbyn.

I'd see the value in debating Corbyn's leadership if it wasn't with these weird denialists. There doesn't seem any point in talking to people who, for instance, can't even begin to understand why they lost Scotland, or why constituents of trad labour northern seats are pissed off with them.
 
Yes, it seems there is massive denial about this on the labour right. They lost twice to Shiny Poshboy and his even more unimpressive second in command, Posh Sneer. But they can't ask themselves why. It's much easier to attack Corbyn.

I'd see the value in debating Corbyn's leadership if it wasn't with these weird denialists. There doesn't seem any point in talking to people who, for instance, can't even begin to understand why they lost Scotland, or why constituents of trad labour northern seats are pissed off with them.

Yeah - Its is the gaping hole in their argument. Yet strangely invisible to the media.
 
Exactly. The Corbyn media strategy (or lack thereof) does strike me as particularly poor, and I agree that he should have put forward a clearer alternative by now. But all the rest of it is long term trends that Labour has been struggling with for years. Presumably Jones knows this, which means the whole post is quite dishonest.
It's not just a media strategy he's on about though, it's the lack of clear policies and direction.
 
It's not just a media strategy he's on about though, it's the lack of clear policies and direction.

He should announce a 5 year plan like a proper commie
vintage-russian-poster-n.v.-tsivchinskii-the-victory-of-the-five-year-plan-is-a-strike-against-capitalism--13549-p.jpg
 
I don't think large crowds are necessarily indicative of any general electoral appeal, but they probably show he will win any leadership contest held now with his eyes closed.

The 'argument' the Labour right are making regarding Michael Foot's/Tony Benn's large crowds prior to losing in 1983 is literally a textbook logical fallacy that could be taught to children as an outstanding example of an illogical argument.

The Labour right demonstrably don't believe a word they're saying about the most important task being to keep the Conservatives out of government. They show by their actions, time and time again, that they are more than willing to put the Conservatives into government in order to consolidate their power inside the party and take the leadership away from the left.
Large crowds might not necessarily correlate to electoral success, but the larger the crowds get, the better the explanations as to why they don't correlate need to be.
 
It's not just a media strategy he's on about though, it's the lack of clear policies and direction.

Just because they're not appearing very often in the media doesn't mean he hasn't got any policies. A selection:

The deficit should be tackled - but not through spending cuts and not to an "arbitrary" deadline. Instead Corbyn would fund its reduction via higher taxes for the rich and a crackdown on tax avoidance and evasion while tackling "corporate welfare" and tax breaks for companies.

Britain's railways should be renationalised. He is also opposed to the HS2 rail scheme, saying it would turn northern cities into "dormitories for London businesses".

"Quantitative easing for people" could be used to invest in housing, energy, transport and digital projects. Unlike the £375bn issued electronically by the Bank of England between 2009 and 2012 to buy bonds, gilts and other debts, this would be "QE for people instead of banks", Corbyn says. Tax campaigner Richard Murphy argues these plans would stimulate the economy and boost employment. But Shadow Chancellor Chris Leslie attacked the proposal, saying it would lead to higher inflation and interest rates, hurting the poor most.

A National Education Service modelled on the NHS should be established. Under Corbyn, state-funded academies and free schools would be forced to return to local authority control while university tuition fees would be scrapped and replaced with grants. Corbyn would look at ending the charitable status of public schools, although he accepts this would be complicated and might not happen immediately. He reportedly split up with one of his former wives following a disagreement over whether to send their son to a grammar school or a comprehensive. Asked recently if the break-up was over an "an issue of principle", Corbyn told the Guardian newspaper: "I feel very strongly about comprehensive education, yes."

Rent controls should be re-introduced, linking private rents to local earnings, and more council houses should be built. He also believes that council tenants' right to buy their homes should be extended to private sector renters.

The immigration debate has been "quite unpleasant". In an interview with Channel 4 News, Corbyn said the current discourse around the issue "fails to recognise the huge contribution migrants have made to this country". He added: "We should let people into this country who are desperate to get somewhere safe to live".

Energy companies should be under public ownership. He says he would be "much happier" with a "regulated, publicly run service delivering energy supplies". He is "totally opposed" to fracking. However, he says deep-mine coal pits in the north of England could be reopened.

A national maximum wage should be introduced to cap the salaries of high earners. He would also introduce a windfall tax on former state assets such as the Royal Bank of Scotland, which he says were privatised too cheaply.

Private Finance Initiative deals with the NHS should be ended by using government funds to buy them out. Writing in the Guardian, Corbyn said they were a "mess" that were costing the health service billions.

The arms trade should be restricted. Corbyn would like to see the "brilliance and skill of those in the arms industry be converted for peaceful purposes".

24 things that Jeremy Corbyn believes - BBC News

What else would you like to see?
 
That's worse than I thought, returning the Falklands, An allotment for everyone?.

Collected by the BBC largely at random, why did you pick on the least important ones?

How about rent control, higher taxes for the rich, tacking tax evasion/avoidance, renationalizing railways and electricity companies, end to PFI, return to free education and some of the others I listed above.

Want to withdraw your statement that he has no policies and direction? Or criticize him for having two bikes perhaps?
 
Two Bikes Corbyn could be a terrible thing to hang on him. Nearly as bad as Two Jags Prescott. That was a false accusation really. One of those jags was his original fairly ancient one that he had owned for years and the second one was his official car provided for his Government job.
 
I think the issue is more one of communicating those policies and building some momentum around them outside of the immediate Corbyn/McDonnell base of support.

On a side note: need a term for this grouping, don't like 'Corbyinsta' etc because that misses the point that these people would be supporting any vaguely honest looking Labour leader who wasn't obviously a neoliberal stooge.
 
Collected by the BBC largely at random, why did you pick on the least important ones?
Do you think a shift like that on the Falklands is not important?. How do you think it would go down with people?.
How about rent control, higher taxes for the rich, tacking tax evasion/avoidance, renationalizing railways and electricity companies, end to PFI, return to free education and some of the others I listed above.

Want to withdraw your statement that he has no policies and direction? Or criticize him for having two bikes perhaps?
All nice stuff, but it needs figures, costings etc before it can turn into an actual policy.
 
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