Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm not saying he liked a dodgy thing, therefore he's dodgy himself! It's like I said further up the thread - he is definitely not an anti-semite, but his understanding of anti-semitism was (and is?) inadequate. And that's why bad actors were able to weaponise that inadequacy against him, and the people he represented.

Anyway, what's going to happen next is that Starmer will win the next election, and then rip his rubber mask off to reveal that he has been Zombie Thatcher all along. Five years after that, when you're sitting amidst the rubble of the final breakdown. . .

The nature of antisemitism is disputed, though. That's part of the problem. Listen to Israeli Government official spokespeople, such as the Israeli ambassador to the UK, and they will tell you that all anti-zionism is antisemitic and that just about all criticism of Israel is antisemitic.

Conflating anti-zionism with anti-semitism is just as sneaky and dishonest as conflating Jews with Israel imo.

 

[Idris2002]

The nature of antisemitism is disputed, though. That's part of the problem. Listen to Israeli Government official spokespeople, such as the Israeli ambassador to the UK, and they will tell you that all anti-zionism is antisemitic and that just about all criticism of Israel is antisemitic.

Conflating anti-zionism with anti-semitism is just as sneaky and dishonest as conflating Jews with Israel imo.

And this is the point I've been trying to make over the past few days - if you want to be anti-zionist and not anti-semitic (I'd say it'd be better to be pro-Palestinian and not anti-semitic) then you need to have a strong concept of what anti-semitism is, and of why a person with your politics should reject it and fight against it. Because otherwise, all you'll have is "I'm not an anti-semitic, I'm anti-zionist" - and the trouble with that one is that it's also a favourite of actual anti-semites.

Now do you see, he typed, grasping littlebabyjesus by the lapels and spraying saliva at him?

 

[redsquirrel]

It's the smell test.

......

No, you wouldn't, you'd say that there's little smoke without fire, that if you lie down with dogs, you get fleas.

He's not consciously anti-Semitic, he's probably genuinely appalled that he's accused of it - but he's been swimming in a very nasty pond for 30+ years, making friends with some pretty odious people, standing on some pretty grim platforms, and he's just blind to it, willfully imv, but blind to it, because it doesn't fit into his self image.

I don't like the sort of anti-imperialism Corbyn is part of, I think it is simplistic and often harmful.

But if we want to talk about fleas, what about the fleas of the pro-Atlanticists - the million+ dead in Iraq, those killed in their regime changes, the cuddling up to dictators and repressive regimes, the migrants discriminated against and persecuted. There are criticisms to be made of Corbyn's actions but he's less guilty than most of his opponents. His greatest sin was not his simplistic foreign politics but that his politics were opposed to the consensus, any leader of the Labour Party that departs from a pro-Atlanticist line is going to be attacked and smeared (as Corbyn was).

There are those that say 'oh well they should have chosen a better candidate' or 'I would have supported the move to the left under someone else without that baggage' but those lines are wet apologises for backing the right of the party.
This was the first (and probably last) chance for 30 years that the Labour left had, and anyone serious about building a left wing Labour Party - well the only option was Corbyn. Which does not mean not criticising him, his politics or his strategy, should be out of bounds, but the supposed option of a left LP with someone else is a convenient fantasy - as the rapid move to the right under Starmer shows.

I don't think the LP holds any answers, I don't think it did even under Corbyn, and (sadly) I think what has happened was always on the cards. But for those, like you, that want the LP well the options were two - a mild Social Democratic Party with the occasional shit anti-imperialism gaffe or a Neoliberal pro-Atlantic anti-worker, anti-migrant, anti-smell of cannabis party under Starmer/Eagle/Cooper/Smith/etc

 

[ruffneck23]

 

[teqniq]

Intentional? No shit. Really?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That's not exactly an apology, is it? Especially with that last sentence added on.

"To be clear, we lied."

 

[PR1Berske]

 

[two sheds]

UN urged to reject antisemitism definition over ‘misuse’ to shield Israel

More than 100 Israeli and international civil society groups warn IHRA definition could curb work of UN bodies

www.theguardian.com

Strange - a guardian article on antisemitism that doesn't mention Corbyn

 

[PR1Berske]

 

[two sheds]

that's them expelled then

 

[hash tag]

I wouldn't put this past him

Jeremy Corbyn to 'have a think' about London mayor bid

Former Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn says he will "have a think" about running in 2024.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[tommers]

I saw somebody on twitter earlier worry that it might "split the left vote".

 

[nogojones]

Looks like he may have a new job in film

 

[two sheds]

Not sure who she is apart from an ex-MP. Would be interested to see the whole quote.

 

[Lurdan]

View attachment 390445

Not sure who she is apart from an ex-MP. Would be interested to see the whole quote.

Clip on X-twitter here FWIW.

 

[Pickman's model]

View attachment 390445

Not sure who she is apart from an ex-MP. Would be interested to see the whole quote.

The master criminal always makes one fatal error

 

[hash tag]

Seriously, he's having a laugh. What planet is McDonnell on?

MSN

 

[two sheds]

Only goes to front page there - can't see a story on McDonnell

 

[teqniq]

Works for me.

 

[Pickman's model]

Only goes to front page there - can't see a story on McDonnell

Lucky you

 

[hash tag]

 

[hitmouse]

Now I'm wondering what the appropriate choice of soft furnishings for a Marxist is?

 

[MickiQ]

Now I'm wondering what the appropriate choice of soft furnishings for a Marxist is?

You can bet your bottom dollar that the velour faction and the chintz faction will be at each others throats about it.

 

[platinumsage]

I wonder what this will be. Did he use party funds to buy a lorry load of sex arses perhaps?

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I'd go with some sort of link to someone connected to some degree to Hamas, to no-one's particular surprise.

 

[quimcunx]

Big jam.

 

[The39thStep]

I'd go with some sort of link to someone connected to some degree to Hamas, to no-one's particular surprise.

What from a well respected and admired muck writer like Cailler?

 

[hash tag]

Reported from Mars, no doubt. Sounding suspiciously like clickbait to me.

 

[teqniq]

Hahaha:

 

[Pickman's model]

Hahaha:

Once people see shammer in the election campaign his score will plummet