Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Larry O'Hara]

hes crap at standing up for himself i think

To be fair to Corbyn, while what you say is true, his philosophy is that he tries to avoid personalising things or making it about himself. More interested in the policy issues.
The problem he has always faced is that those attacking him have no interest in discussing the policy issues in a rational manner and thus personalise things (eg him being a Soviet agent/anti-semite and other BS).
Thus what was historically a JC strength, his refusal to play the Punch and Judy game, which so impressed many Labour members (and voters in 2017), has now turned into a weakness. Also not helped by him being fuzzy on some details.
Interesting to note that John McDonnell has not been monstered the same way: unlike JC he is very clever and well capable of biting back.
So in context dont be too hard on JC here, though to paraphrase St Just, those who half make revitalising the Labour Party have instead dug their own political graves…but like Jon Snow in GOT death need not be forever….I wish Starmer in govt all the success he deserves: f.all

 

[ska invita]

To be fair to Corbyn, while what you say is true, his philosophy is that he tries to avoid personalising things or making it about himself. More interested in the policy issues.
The problem he has always faced is that those attacking him have no interest in discussing the policy issues in a rational manner and thus personalise things (eg him being a Soviet agent/anti-semite and other BS).
Thus what was historically a JC strength, his refusal to play the Punch and Judy game, which so impressed many Labour members (and voters in 2017), has now turned into a weakness. Also not helped by him being fuzzy on some details.
Interesting to note that John McDonnell has not been monstered the same way: unlike JC he is very clever and well capable of biting back.
So in context dont be too hard on JC here, though to paraphrase St Just, those who half make revitalising the Labour Party have instead dug their own political graves…but like Jon Snow in GOT death need not be forever….I wish Starmer in govt all the success he deserves: f.all

you are right of course, i see that, but ffs there are times you need to kick back else you end up beaten up and in a ditch - its all well and good being Jesus like but look what happened to him

 

[Larry O'Hara]

you are right of course, i see that, but ffs there are times you need to kick back else you end up beaten up and in a ditch - its all well and good being Jesus like but look what happened to him

I agree entirely: the Labour Left have often been too soft. Contrast this with the Right who were quite happy to sabotage Labour in 2017 to prevent a Left victory

 

[two sheds]

same as in the US - how to lose

 

[8ball]

Well, this thread has got proper jolly.

 

[hash tag]

Hodge was on the radio this morning twisting the knife again. So Corbyn's Labour time is up.
BBC News - Jeremy Corbyn won't be Labour candidate at next election, says Starmer

Jeremy Corbyn won't be Labour candidate at next election, says Starmer

Sir Keir Starmer says the party has changed permanently under his leadership and "we are not going back".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Starmer the dictator, then? He gets to decide such matters on his own? Wanker.

Hope Corbyn stands as an independent. I think he'd stand a very good chance of winning.

 

[kebabking]

Starmer the dictator, then? He gets to decide such matters on his own? Wanker.

Hope Corbyn stands as an independent. I think he'd stand a very good chance of winning.

Starmer would quite like that - it's only one seat, and it's not going to the Tories. The brilliant thing is that if Labour stands a no-hope candidate and Corbyn stands as well, he can instantly throw Corbyn, and any Labour member who supports him, in any way out of the party.

 

[DaphneM]

Starmer would quite like that - it's only one seat, and it's not going to the Tories. The brilliant thing is that if Labour stands a no-hope candidate and Corbyn stands as well, he can instantly throw Corbyn, and any Labour member who supports him, in any way out of the party.

brilliant

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's not a good look, though. When Livingstone beat Dobson in the London mayor election, that eventually led to labour courting Livingstone to come back. It was a major embarrassment.

 

[Sue]

Starmer would quite like that - it's only one seat, and it's not going to the Tories. The brilliant thing is that if Labour stands a no-hope candidate and Corbyn stands as well, he can instantly throw Corbyn, and any Labour member who supports him, in any way out of the party.

Unlike most MPs who leave the party they were elected for, stand as an independent and lose abysmally, I reckon Corbyn would likely win this.

And anyone who stands for Labour will be non-local (they won't trust locals to choose a candidate and anyone local will realise standing against Corbyn would be a tall order/bad idea). Expelling people for supporting Corbyn would result in the local party being hollowed out. (Even those local members who don't campaign for Corbyn -- and he seems to be respected as an MP even among the right of the local party -- won't exactly be rushing to support/campaign for an imposed Labour candidate.)

So guess it depends whether Starmer cares about throwing away an incredibly safe seat and losing the local party to boot. I guess he probably doesn't.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Some MPs become respected at the constituency level and win elections with a largely personal vote. Simon Hughes for the LibDems was like that. Won by being a homophobic cunt, but stayed in the seat because enough people liked him. If Corbyn stands as an indie, I'll be amazed if he loses.

 

[kebabking]

Unlike most MPs who leave the party they were elected for, stand as an independent and lose abysmally, I reckon Corbyn would likely win this.

And anyone who stands for Labour will be non-local (they won't trust locals to choose a candidate and anyone local will realise standing against Corbyn would be a tall order/bad idea). Expelling people for supporting Corbyn would result in the local party being hollowed out. (Even those local members who don't campaign for Corbyn -- and he seems to be respected as an MP even among the right of the local party -- won't exactly be rushing to support/campaign for an imposed Labour candidate.)

So guess it depends whether Starmer cares about throwing away an incredibly safe seat and losing the local party to boot. I guess he probably doesn't.

I imagine that Starmer would consider the 'loss' of Islington N (for one parliament, perhaps two?) an absolute bargain for the prize of hoofing Corbyn and huge numbers of his supporters within the party out forever.

The seat isn't going to a Tory, so it's not something that will effect whether Lab wins or loses the next GE, and Corbyn remains the most rebellious Lab MP ever, so you'd have to ask exactly what it is that Starmer is losing by going down this road. Lots to win, for no penalty whatsoever...

 

[Cerv]

Hodge was on the radio this morning twisting the knife again. So Corbyn's Labour time is up.
BBC News - Jeremy Corbyn won't be Labour candidate at next election, says Starmer

Jeremy Corbyn won't be Labour candidate at next election, says Starmer

Sir Keir Starmer says the party has changed permanently under his leadership and "we are not going back".

www.bbc.co.uk

sky is blue, water is wet
why is this news?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I imagine that Starmer would consider the 'loss' of Islington N (for one parliament, perhaps two?) an absolute bargain for the prize of hoofing Corbyn and huge numbers of his supporters within the party out forever.

The seat isn't going to a Tory, so it's not something that will effect whether Lab wins or loses the next GE, and Corbyn remains the most rebellious Lab MP ever, so you'd have to ask exactly what it is that Starmer is losing by going down this road. Lots to win, for no penalty whatsoever...

There is a penalty. Even if it's only symbolic, it's potentially powerful.

My Labour Party is different. We're Not Going Back (to that Labour Party whose representative just proved himself to be hugely popular among Labour supporters).

 

[Sue]

I imagine that Starmer would consider the 'loss' of Islington N (for one parliament, perhaps two?) an absolute bargain for the prize of hoofing Corbyn and huge numbers of his supporters within the party out forever.

The seat isn't going to a Tory, so it's not something that will effect whether Lab wins or loses the next GE, and Corbyn remains the most rebellious Lab MP ever, so you'd have to ask exactly what it is that Starmer is losing by going down this road. Lots to win, for no penalty whatsoever...

I reckon once you lose a seat in such circumstances, getting it back in an election or two -- even after Corbyn retires or whatever -- is in no way a sure thing. And I imagine with it being a safe seat, its Labour members will currently help out campaigning in other constituencies too. Given Labour -- like most parties -- can't actually afford to throw active members away, imagine the loss of the Islington N Labour membership will likely have wider implications.

 

[marty21]

Starmer the dictator, then? He gets to decide such matters on his own? Wanker.

Hope Corbyn stands as an independent. I think he'd stand a very good chance of winning.

It is similar (in a smaller way) to Ken Livingston running as an independent for London Mayor - had the Blairite Labour party against him, and still managed to win , can't remember how much Frank Dobson , the sacrificial lamb, got, but he didn't take enough votes to let the Tories in. No doubt a Labour no-hoper, a young candidate, will be slotted into Islington North as the candidate and Corbyn will romp home - probably get re-admitted to the party after the GE win, and will probably resign mid term when Starmer fucks him off ,forcing a by-election

 

[marty21]

Hodge was on the radio this morning twisting the knife again. So Corbyn's Labour time is up.
BBC News - Jeremy Corbyn won't be Labour candidate at next election, says Starmer

Jeremy Corbyn won't be Labour candidate at next election, says Starmer

Sir Keir Starmer says the party has changed permanently under his leadership and "we are not going back".

www.bbc.co.uk

Hodge proper fucks me off

 

[AmateurAgitator]

Meh

 

[Pickman's model]

Hodge proper fucks me off

margaret hodge, the paedos' friend?

 

[YouSir]

I imagine that Starmer would consider the 'loss' of Islington N (for one parliament, perhaps two?) an absolute bargain for the prize of hoofing Corbyn and huge numbers of his supporters within the party out forever.

The seat isn't going to a Tory, so it's not something that will effect whether Lab wins or loses the next GE, and Corbyn remains the most rebellious Lab MP ever, so you'd have to ask exactly what it is that Starmer is losing by going down this road. Lots to win, for no penalty whatsoever...

Think he's already gambled on getting enough funding in from elsewhere for it not to matter but routinely hemorrhaging party members does take a toll. If they aren't harassing people on doorsteps and paying subs then someone else has to. They've already lost the young and Left Wing ones, if they drive off too many of the old hardcore of forever Labour types then, from what I've seen at least, they'll be left with a handful of middle class, middle managers locally and they tend to prefer having a title to actually doing stuff.

 

[Pickman's model]

I imagine that Starmer would consider the 'loss' of Islington N (for one parliament, perhaps two?) an absolute bargain for the prize of hoofing Corbyn and huge numbers of his supporters within the party out forever.

The seat isn't going to a Tory, so it's not something that will effect whether Lab wins or loses the next GE, and Corbyn remains the most rebellious Lab MP ever, so you'd have to ask exactly what it is that Starmer is losing by going down this road. Lots to win, for no penalty whatsoever...

if you listened to margaret hodge on the radio this morning going on about how the labour party has changed, how it's now pro-business (like it hasn't always been ), if you were in any way social democratic i think you'd be appalled. to me it's like there's this utterly visceral hatred of corbyn which transcends any actual offence he might have committed, that hodge and her ilk won't be satisfied until corbyn's name is expunged from the historical records, pictures of him are de-faced, and his house is demolished and the plot sowed with salt to prevent anything ever growing there again. imagine if he'd been as radical as james callaghan or harold wilson, if hodge and her foul cabal could have outdone their disdain and contempt - but i don't think they could.

 

[planetgeli]

Meh

I know everyone is a running dog lackie outside of your sect but it's hard to see 'meh' under the name of Hodge, even if that's not what you meant. Hodge has been utter scum since the 80s, the embodiment of power corrupts and why the Labour Party in power are doomed to rightward shifts. She presided over children's homes where paedophilia was rife and her response was to libel one of the complainants. She was racist to the point she got support off the BNP. She's abusive and bullying, while accusing others of the same thing. And she's a liar. And the rest. I too have a thing about Hodge and 'meh' doesn't begin to cover it.

 

[marty21]

Think he's already gambled on getting enough funding in from elsewhere for it not to matter but routinely hemorrhaging party members does take a toll. If they aren't harassing people on doorsteps and paying subs then someone else has to. They've already lost the young and Left Wing ones, if they drive off too many of the old hardcore of forever Labour types then, from what I've seen at least, they'll be left with a handful of middle class, middle managers locally and they tend to prefer having a title to actually doing stuff.

Starmer should have let Corbyn remain an MP, and member of the party - he clearly thinks he can ride this one out - and has probably factored in losing Islington North , but he has pissed off a lot of people who maybe would have campaigned for him - I don't reckon on centrists being great campaigners on the doorstep tbf - although luckily for Starmer , the Tories are so fucking awful, they are in effect campaigning against themselves atm.

 

[Pickman's model]

Starmer should have let Corbyn remain an MP, and member of the party - he clearly thinks he can ride this one out - and has probably factored in losing Islington North , but he has pissed off a lot of people who maybe would have campaigned for him - I don't reckon on centrists being great campaigners on the doorstep tbf - although luckily for Starmer , the Tories are so fucking awful, they are in effect campaigning against themselves atm.

i suspect shammer will manage to grasp defeat from the jaws of victory, to emulate that great labour leader neil kinnock - labour would be a shoe-in if only there wasn't that pesky campaign before the vote

 

[Pickman's model]

Meh

more of this, please, far better than your whinging posts about how everything's so unfair

 

[Idris2002]

Starmer would quite like that - it's only one seat, and it's not going to the Tories. The brilliant thing is that if Labour stands a no-hope candidate and Corbyn stands as well, he can instantly throw Corbyn, and any Labour member who supports him, in any way out of the party.

Starmer can throw people overboard all he likes, the bottom line remains: he's still on the Titanic. In the old days people like him were the B Team of British capitalism, the saps who'd get sent in when the Tories had shit the bed in spectacular fashion (1945, 1974, 1997). They'd take the heat for a few years, maybe make some real reforms (not that Starmer intends anything like that), but their key role would be to keep the working classes inside the tent pissing out.

But now that old working class no longer really exists, there is probably no longer an industrial base big enough to buy them off by returning to old school social democracy (this was a weakness of Corbynism too), and the tent is on fire.

 

[rasputin]

So guess it depends whether Starmer cares about throwing away an incredibly safe seat and losing the local party to boot. I guess he probably doesn't.

You can bet he doesn't.

It means, for example, that Momentum will be forced into a choice between campaigning for Corbyn and campaigning for Labour. If they choose the former it gives the current leadership all the excuse they need to proscribe it as an organisation and kick them all out of the party. The same dilemma is faced by close allies of Corbyn, such as John McDonnell, Dianne Abbott, Richard Burgon, Cat Smith and several others. It could eviscerate what remains of the left of the party.

For that reason I imagine that there will be many hoping he does not stand.

 

[Lorca]

I don't know much about london politics, but could corbyn win the mayoralty as an independent - guessing not? There would be a smidge of schadenfreude to watch keith and his cronies tho!

 

[AmateurAgitator]

I know everyone is a running dog lackie outside of your sect but it's hard to see 'meh' under the name of Hodge, even if that's not what you meant. Hodge has been utter scum since the 80s, the embodiment of power corrupts and why the Labour Party in power are doomed to rightward shifts. She presided over children's homes where paedophilia was rife and her response was to libel one of the complainants. She was racist to the point she got support off the BNP. She's abusive and bullying, while accusing others of the same thing. And she's a liar. And the rest. I too have a thing about Hodge and 'meh' doesn't begin to cover it.

Bloody Corbynista bellends. It was a general meh at the entire thread and Corbyn.