Islam and suicidal terrorism:Analysing connections

[newharper]

'Start the week' this norning had a good discussion touching on this.

According to the philosopher JOHN GRAY, some of the most destructive movements of the last few centuries have been driven by a secular twist on the Christian myth of an Apocalyse, followed by a new Utopia. In his new book, Black Mass: Apocalyptic Religion and the Death of Utopia, John Gray argues that the faith in Utopia that killed so many is now dead, but it does not mean peace is assured. Instead he believes that apocalyptic religion has emerged at the very heart of global conflict. Black Mass: Apocalyptic Religion and the Death of Utopia is published by Allen Lane.

ERIC HOBSBAWM is one of Britain’s most influential modern historians. He discusses the effects of globalisation, the plight of democracy and the threat of terrorism in the 21st Century and explains why he thinks the campaign to spread democracy will not succeed. He also argues that the age of empire is dead and that we have to find alternative ways of ordering the world. His new book of essays is entitled Globalisation, Democracy and Terrorism and is published by Little, Brown.

One part that has me looking, was the statement that suicide bombing started with the Tamil Tigers and that as such comes from the Atheistic Marxist tradition. I thought suicide bombing had, in many guises, always been with us?

Download or hear agaian here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/starttheweek.shtml

 

[mr_eko]

So where does this 'corporate' responsibilty start and begin? What if you are a cleaner? What about all the other firms in the WTC that had nothing to do with finance? Can't you see that al-Qaeda's twisted thinking and logic allows them to class anyone that they kill as apostates that deserve to die

 

[moono]

That looks like a good read, Newharper.

So where does this 'corporate' responsibilty start and begin? What if you are a cleaner? What about all the other firms in the WTC that had nothing to do with finance? Can't you see that al-Qaeda's twisted thinking and logic allows them to class anyone that they kill as apostates that deserve to die

Well, it starts with the imperialist mindset and it ends, if indicators are to be taken seriously, with a fucking great bomb under corporate headquarters.

I already conceded that many civilians were murdered , I'm not disputing that. The view I'm expressing is that they were al-Qaeda's ' collateral damage', not their target. The target was the castle of corporate rape, and the corporate soldiers within. They'd have justified the 'cleaners', sure, just as the Zionists justify the tobacco seller and the street urchin.

That's how far removed they are/were from the Glasgow self-immolation nutters. Attempts by the 'establishment' to tie them to al-Qaeda are laughable. Any 'evidence' they produce will be phoney. They'll have 'al-Qaeda' sections in the football terraces next, if you let them. These are the people who murdered Jean Charles de Meneses and got clean away with it, due to public fear of 'al-Qaeda'.

The IRA shot John Bull in the wallet and an intelligent 'al-Qaeda' would do the same.

 

[ZAMB]

So where does this 'corporate' responsibilty start and begin? What if you are a cleaner? What about all the other firms in the WTC that had nothing to do with finance? Can't you see that al-Qaeda's twisted thinking and logic allows them to class anyone that they kill as apostates that deserve to die

Do you not see that this 'twisted thinking' also applies to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq who were killed in the illegal bombing of their countries? Who is taking responsibility for them? Certainly not Bushn'Bliar. Even before the current war on Iraq, Clinton's govt position was that the deaths of the thousands of kids who died in Iraq due to the 'sanctions' policy was a 'price worth paying'. Or do they [Western 'christian' governments] think that every ME resident is an 'apostate that deserves to die'? They've certainly killed a helluva lot more of them with zero remorse.

 

[mr_eko]

Do you not see that this 'twisted thinking' also applies to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq who were killed in the illegal bombing of their countries? Who is taking responsibility for them? Certainly not Bushn'Bliar. Even before the current war on Iraq, Clinton's govt position was that the deaths of the thousands of kids who died in Iraq due to the 'sanctions' policy was a 'price worth paying'. Or do they [Western 'christian' governments] think that every ME resident is an 'apostate that deserves to die'? They've certainly killed a helluva lot more of them with zero remorse.

Yes, although it's inevitable in war, the killing of civilians is always wrong and I think the western governments have fabricated a moral high ground in an attempt to justify it. Like Karzai said the other day "You don't fight a terrorist by firing a field gun 37km away into a target. That's definitely, surely bound to cause civilian casualties"

The western governments don't appear to see that the a civilian death in the west is of equal value to a civilian death in the east.

 

[ZAMB]

The western governments don't appear to see that the a civilian death in the west is of equal value to a civilian death in the east.

I'm glad that you recognise that the 'twisted thinking' also occurs in the west.
I find it sickening that, as a citizen of the UK, such things are being done in my name.

 

[CyberRose]

Ok am I being thick or is there supposed to be a link in the first post?!

 

[mears]

Setting fire to oneself in Glasgow probably isn't an extraordinary event in itself. It's the 'international' component of the airport which clarifies the 'message'.
However, the 'message' is already abundantly clear to just about everybody in the UK who is capable of rational thought.

We also know that these 'attacks' are fuck-all to do with 'al-Qaeda'. They are just the expression of an enraged religious underclass. Al-Qaeda was an intelligent an effective force and their choice of targets, the WTC, the Pentagon and the White House, were hardly indiscriminate attacks on 'civilians', although many civilians were killed and injured.

Doctors and "underclass", the two really don't go together in my book.

 

[moono]

mears;

Doctors and "underclass", the two really don't go together in my book.

I was quite clear when I said 'religious underclass'. You want to stick your head up Warren's arse with him or do you prefer your own .

 

[mears]

mears;


I was quite clear when I said 'religious underclass'. You want to stick your head up Warren's arse with him or do you prefer your own .

I mean doctors who are so dumb that can't even kill themselves, so I don't want to give them much credit, but do you believe these doctors represent a religious underclass?

Does that land owning, second in command Egyptian Doctor (Zawahiri) who licks the ass of the head trust fund baby at the top (Bin Laden) also represent this religious under class?

 

[mears]

Everyone talks about how someone is pulling Bush's strings in the background. I think Zawahiri is the real brains of the corporation. Zawahiri, along with Atef (dead) Sheik Muhammed (captured) really ran the show for many years.

Bin Laded would have been a nobody if he wasn't born into millions, extreme wealth, 10 of millions which lasted much longer 20 years ago. Going into Pakistan and throwing all that cash around. He got noticed because money always tallks. Its not like he dabates anyone or faces questions from Parliament. Bin Laden's writings are not the stuff of brilliance or even intelligence in my book.

 

[Detroit City]

hmm...rich guys who have nothing to do...that explains al-qaeda

 

[mears]

hmm...rich guys who have nothing to do...that explains al-qaeda

than explain it

 

[newharper]

Bush would have been a nobody if he wasn't born into millions, extreme wealth, 10 of millions which lasted much longer 20 years ago. Going into Pakistan and throwing all that cash around. He got noticed because money always tallks. Its not like he dabates anyone or faces questions from Parliament. Bush's writings are not the stuff of brilliance or even intelligence in my book.

Apologies Mears, but report me if you must.

 

[mears]

Apologies Mears, but report me if you must.

Report you to whom?

 

[newharper]

Report you to whom?

To the editor or mods.

I am very dubious whether to believe you about your innocence of these matters, but we are allowed to report each other for breaking the boards rules.

Altering other peoples posts is very frowned apon.

Quite rightly.

 

[Detroit City]

than explain it

idle hands are the devil's workshop

 

[mears]

To the editor or mods.

I am very dubious whether to believe you about your innocence of these matters, but we are allowed to report each other for breaking the boards rules.

Altering other peoples posts is very frowned apon.

Quite rightly.

Excuse me, altering other peoples posts, where did you get that from?

 

[mears]

idle hands are the devil's workshop

Do you mean Idle as in the the Arab world? That Arab men should be more focused on providing for their families than Jihad? You believe Muslim poverty feeds the discontent which boils over into terrorism.

Those "idle hands" need to get a job?

 

[mears]

Apologies Mears, but report me if you must.

When people criticize Bush around here should I automatically bring up Bin Laden? Can you imagine how crazy it would get. Yes, but Bin Ladan this and yes Bin Laden that.

However, when I criticize Bin laden someone feels the compunction to bring up Bush everytime. That is outlandish, its as if you need to protect Bin Laden from something. For some reason, to come along and criticize someone not associated with Bush or Blair gets a certain segment around here fired up. Its just another example of people so out of touch with reality its shocking.

I like to fish. Criticizing Bin Laden on Urban 75 is like casting your reel into the murky depths of some Minnesota lake. Put a statement out for all the loons to read and watch who takes the bait.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

To be fair, bin Ladin did make that groovy election broadcast which almost certainly gave Bush an electoral boost. A masterly stroke on his part I feel.

It's hard to imagine a US president more favourable to his declared aims after all.