Is obesity a disability?

[kenny g]

What makes them senile? Old age doesn't automatically mean senility.

I would whole heartedly agree with you that old age doesn't automatically mean senility.

I was responding in part to the Register article that had earlier been quoted and linked to which appeared to suggest there was an added cost in longevity due to the increased likelihood of senility amongst those of prolonged life. The suggestion being that "health freaks" were going to lead to vast numbers of elderly senile persons using up health care resources. My point was that the cost of supporting an obese diabetic requiring a hip replacement who is senile must be considerably more than someone who is merely senile. Plenty of elderly senile people are also grossly overweight and immobile. There also seems to be some evidence that physical activity can reduce the onset of dementia. Unfortunately although obesity often does shorten life it doesn't necessarily result in a "short kill" and often results in prolonged ill health.

 

[ViolentPanda]

some people who object to the use of testing in determining ability / disability claim that anything which aims to classify or offer treatments for things is 'medicalising' , this can also include suggesting that physical medical treatments or 'psychiatric' drugs + talking approaches are the most effective ways to deal with an issue

Bullshit.
In this context "medicalisation" simply means the imposition of a medical paradigm, with no consideration of any other factors.

it's also all aobut those who want to make pathology 'normal' ...

No it isn't.

it's the illogical conclusion of those who have extrapolated the psycho-social model and forget that both ' the medical model' and ' the psycho-social model' have generally been merged into a bio-psycho-social model - just the funding in the UK is insufficiently joined up and rather less joined than that elsewhere in the world

The bio-psycho-social model is much touted but not particularly effective, except if you're NICE and it helps you save spending on treatments. In many situations medicalisation is still the default position, and the "social" element goes out of the window, especially when it involves treatment beyond writing on a prescription pad.

It's also social w**kers vs Doctors with collateral Damage in the Nurses and AHPs depending on the view of the individual making the criticiam ( i.e. they are either twoo wishy washy and don't pay enough attention to facts, science and objective assessment of behaviours and ability OR alternatively their are the running dog lackeys of the patriarchial medicla establishment becasue they don;t just rely on the fluffy and touchy feely subjective stuff)

It's not "social workers vs doctors". For the last 30-odd years the two have been involved, in one way or another, in increasingly-involved multi-agency partnerships with regard to public health.

You should step away from your stereotypes and your pathetic ranty politically-motivated misrepresentations, and actually get yourself a clue about what you're talking about, nursey.

 

[ViolentPanda]

it also contributed to the notion of the disabled as a parallel community , 'equal but different' ...

"Equal but different", my arse. All the attempts to promote understanding were very laudable, but neither the funding nor the political commitment was ever there to make it reality, under any government. 80-odd years on from the start of the original local authority disability registers, and it's still lip service that local authorities and central government give to the notion of disabled peoples' equality with "normal people". We still have a national rail network that's about 75% inaccessible for people with mobility problems - higher if you're chair-bound. In most large cities accessible buses are a recent innovation, and on some routes in rural areas they're still a pipe-dream. As for the Tube network in London, the least said, the better..
I'm not a militant with regards to the rights of disabled people by any stretch of the imagination. I'm not insistent that shops and hotels carry out major works on their premises on the off-chance of scoring a disability premium. I would like however, when I'm physically-able, to actually be able to move around the city I live in without having to plan a route to my destination which might have me traveling three times the actual distance because of accessibility issues.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I have no idea what you mean by this post. None whatsoever.

I'm not sure that Zippy has, either, given how much of his little rant is inaccurate.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Which isn't a surprise when people persist in calling those with disabilities 'the disabled', thus ostracising them.

A lot of people don't even notice that calling a group "the (insert name here)" de-personalises them, renders them a homogeneous body - effectively residualising them to (in the case of disabled people) their disabilities rather than the fact that they're people.

 

[ViolentPanda]

in at least one of the accepted definitions of 'senility' it refers advanced age primarily

The manifested effects of old age. You can be a person of very advanced years without being senile.

 

[equationgirl]

i see yet another thing has gone over your head ...

I think I've demonstrated I have a better understanding of disability than you do.

Please take your outdated stereotypes, your pathetic rants and the chip on your shoulder elsewhere.

 

[zippyRN]

I think I've demonstrated I have a better understanding of disability than you do.

Please take your outdated stereotypes, your pathetic rants and the chip on your shoulder elsewhere.

and once again 'right on ' denziens of Urban start with ad hominem attacks towards those who don;t share their own inaccurate and biased position .

unfortunately there are people who object to involvement of healthcare in things beyond what their own narrow definition of the role of healthcare should be - you only need to look at the inaccurate crap being trotted aobut about WCA - how dare people be assessed using criteria, how dare the assessors actually use all the information rather than a constructed sub set ... it;s funny how alot of the stuff in the WCA process is the same stuff that is decades old in Occupational health ...

then there are all the anti-psychiatry loons and those who don't want to see chronic conditions physical or mental which have multiple impacts on health as part of of the things health should look at

there is huge tension between Health Professionals and Social workers, especially over the way in which social workers interpret presumption of Capacity and often don't give weight to the views of Nurses and care staff who have been observing the behaviours and actions of individuals fare more often and for far greater periods than anyone from social work has ...

 

[Blagsta]

some people who object to the use of testing in determining ability / disability claim that anything which aims to classify or offer treatments for things is 'medicalising' , this can also include suggesting that physical medical treatments or 'psychiatric' drugs + talking approaches are the most effective ways to deal with an issue

it's also all aobut those who want to make pathology 'normal' ...

it's the illogical conclusion of those who have extrapolated the psycho-social model and forget that both ' the medical model' and ' the psycho-social model' have generally been merged into a bio-psycho-social model - just the funding in the UK is insufficiently joined up and rather less joined than that elsewhere in the world

It's also social w**kers vs Doctors with collateral Damage in the Nurses and AHPs depending on the view of the individual making the criticiam ( i.e. they are either twoo wishy washy and don't pay enough attention to facts, science and objective assessment of behaviours and ability OR alternatively their are the running dog lackeys of the patriarchial medicla establishment becasue they don;t just rely on the fluffy and touchy feely subjective stuff)

Wtf?

 

[Blagsta]

i see yet another thing has gone over your head ...

I think the problem is with you. There are competing and overlapping conceptual frameworks for understanding health and disability. You don't appear to be able to articulate any of the arguments.

 

[toggle]

and once again 'right on ' denziens of Urban start with ad hominem attacks towards those who don;t share their own inaccurate and biased position .

coming from someone who can't resist using a thread where someone asked for support with specific problems for a chance for some pathetic point scoring in another failed attempt to try to prove why they have a morally and intellectually superior understanding of the experiences of disabled people than disabled people. but clearly it's everyone else that is clueless about their own expereinces and expertise, never you. oh no. never you.

 

[equationgirl]

And what I said was hardly an ad hominem attack, zippyRN

Your track record speaks for you, and it doesn't say great things.

 

[equationgirl]

and once again 'right on ' denziens of Urban start with ad hominem attacks towards those who don;t share their own inaccurate and biased position .

unfortunately there are people who object to involvement of healthcare in things beyond what their own narrow definition of the role of healthcare should be - you only need to look at the inaccurate crap being trotted aobut about WCA - how dare people be assessed using criteria, how dare the assessors actually use all the information rather than a constructed sub set ... it;s funny how alot of the stuff in the WCA process is the same stuff that is decades old in Occupational health ...

then there are all the anti-psychiatry loons and those who don't want to see chronic conditions physical or mental which have multiple impacts on health as part of of the things health should look at

there is huge tension between Health Professionals and Social workers, especially over the way in which social workers interpreet presumption of Capoacity and often don;t given weight to the views of Nurses and care staff who have been observing the behaviours and actions of individuals fare more often and for far greater periods than anyone from social work has ...

Had you bothered to read any of the thread for supporting those through the Atos WCA, you would see that people do not object to the assessment itself, but the way it is carried out, by people who are invariably ill-equipped to assess complex medical histories (if you had MS would you want to be assessed by a chiropracter or a podiatrist, for example?) and using criteria skewed towards only assessing physical conditions rather than physical and mental conditions.

You do not know what you are talking about, and are once again on a personal crusade against 'the Left' and 'the right-on'.

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

Well all I can say is...
Feck it I'm having another mince pie
Merry Christmas all

 

[Greebo]

and once again 'right on ' denziens of Urban start with ad hominem attacks towards those who don;t share their own inaccurate and biased position .

unfortunately there are people who object to involvement of healthcare in things beyond what their own narrow definition of the role of healthcare should be - you only need to look at the inaccurate crap being trotted aobut about WCA - how dare people be assessed using criteria, how dare the assessors actually use all the information rather than a constructed sub set ... it;s funny how alot of the stuff in the WCA process is the same stuff that is decades old in Occupational health ...

then there are all the anti-psychiatry loons and those who don't want to see chronic conditions physical or mental which have multiple impacts on health as part of of the things health should look at. <snip>

No crossthread beef thank you, and certainly not in what's supposed to be the season of goodwill.

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

No crossthread turkey thank you, and certainly not in what's supposed to be the season of goodwill.

Ftfy

 

[zippyRN]

No crossthread beef thank you, and certainly not in what's supposed to be the season of goodwill.

Greebo, it doesn't matter as after all i'm just a subhuman as i keep being told by the likes of equationgirl , with their constant ad hominem attacks just because i don't share their own political delusions.

Urban is about support - we keep being told ? as long as you agree with the vocal leftist twats who think they run the place

 

[equationgirl]

Greebo, it doesn't matter as after all i'm just a subhuman as i keep being told by the likes of equationgirl , with their constant ad hominem attacks just because i don't share their own political delusions.

Urban is about support - we keep being told ? as long as you agree with the vocal leftist twats who think they run the place

Please link to the post where I have told you that you are subhuman

I don't think I run the place, but your constant disruptions to otherwise informative and lively debates is in breach of the FAQ, as you well know. So please stop.

 

[zippyRN]

Please link to the post where I have told you that you are subhuman

I don't think I run the place, but your constant disruptions to otherwise informative and lively debates is in breach of the FAQ, as you well know. So please stop.

I think you might want to review the FAQs and rules before yet another of your rude and abusive posts.

 

[equationgirl]

I think you might want to review the FAQs and rules before yet another of your rude and abusive posts.

Please link to the post where I have told you that you are subhuman.

 

[toggle]

I think you might want to review the FAQs and rules before yet another of your rude and abusive posts.

I think you might want to answer her question before moving onto more spewing more lies

 

[toggle]

it's another one of those twats that considers disagreement to be abusive.

 

[zippyRN]

Please link to the post where I have told you that you are subhuman.

are we goiung to play semantics , you only need look at the the posts telling me to fuck off calling me a cunt and various other insulrs to see that you don't view me as a person with feeling, concerns and worries of my own , in fact demionstrating all the behaviours you so casually accuse me of .

 

[zippyRN]

it's another one of those twats that considers disagreement to be abusive.

can you not distinguish between disagreement and the outright ad hominem and hate postings directed at the person ( not that it appears that some of those making these posts consider me to be a person rather just a yet another piece of 'tory scum').

 

[Greebo]

Greebo, it doesn't matter as after all i'm just a subhuman as i keep being told by the likes of equationgirl , with their constant ad hominem attacks just because i don't share their own political delusions.<snip>

You know what? I wanted to give you another chance, because just occasionally, in spite of yourself, you say something sensible. But your snide digs at people who've more than earned their right to speak out against how ATOS carry out assessments, and at those who don't subscribe to the Wesselyite recommendations for treating ME are, in my arrogant opinion, beyond the pale.

Most of urban is for debate - OTOH there are threads on which support is sought, and given, unconditionally, regardless of personality clashes and grudges. I'm sorry if you're incapable of that level of social nuance.

You call some of these people leftist twats, they've willingly spent hours keeping others from falling through the cracks. Neither because the law tells them to, nor because they're paid to, but because they could. And if doing that makes somebody a leftist twat, you can print me up a T shirt for it too.

 

[toggle]

are we goiung to play semantics , you only need look at the the posts telling me to fuck off calling me a cunt and various other insulrs to see that you don't view me as a person with feeling, concerns and worries of my own , in fact demionstrating all the behaviours you so casually accuse me of .

so she didn't call you subhuman and this ramble is some kind of attempt at dissembling before we all realise you're a lying cunt.

 

[zippyRN]

so she didn't call you subhuman and this ramble is some kind of attempt at dissembling before we all realise you're a lying cunt.

dissembling what ?

what an i lying about ?

 

[Blagsta]

I think you might want to review the FAQs and rules before yet another of your rude and abusive posts.

Your entire MO is to attack the person not address the argument, so fuck off with this shit.

 

[equationgirl]

dissembling what ?

what an i lying about ?

You lied about me called you subhuman for a start.

 

[friendofdorothy]

I'm fed up with everyone who is ill being blamed for it.
“Illness is neither an indulgence for which people have to pay,
nor an offence for which they should be penalised, but a misfortune, the cost of which
should be shared by the community.” (Bevan)

I'm not ill. I'm fat - I always been fat. Pass the chocolate please.

merry christmas everyone.