chilango you are raising some yummy strawmen. Many veggies myself included don't eat quorn or fake processed meat products, the idea of emulating a meat product I avoid is bonkers. And the same goes for frozen lasange in so much that I don't want to eat crap processed food or unripe shit that's come halfway across the world
Is it wrong to eat animals that are clever?
- Thread starter Orang Utan
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
won't be any fish left.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
It's like grow and pick your own strawberries, but with fish. Like fat carp in ponds. Although they taste like mud apparently.
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Not at all. The contention seems to be being made that vegetarianism is better for the environment than meat eating, for example.
My point is just that this is over-simplistic and by no means always true. Hence my examples.
I fully agree that if the only considered change in diet of a "typical western supermarket shopper" (for want of a better way of putting it) is to stop eating meat and go veggie, then - yes - that is better for the environment.
However it is still a diet based within industrialised capitalist agriculture and therefore still undeniably pretty damn bad for the environment.
Once you go beyond that into non-industrial forms of food production (allotments, hunting, smallholdings, foraging etc. etc.) the difference between being veggie and being non-veggie diminish as far as environmental impact is concerned. Indeed local environmental factors become far more important regarding choice of diet.
Trying to introduce these kinds of elements into your diet is probably far more beneficial than simply switching from meat to veggie in the frozen food aisle.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it doesn't mention farming
chilango Getting people switching to a more veggie diet and maintaining large scale food production is a lot more realistic than 11 million Londoners hunting mangy fox and raising chickens on their balconies. I have an allotment and would love to live in your world but short of the Luftwaffe pulverising the Capital again there isn't any space for smallholdings here. And people call me a hippy
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I don't normally bother asking about pics (I can sometimes guess from the filename) but as I'm procrastinating... What is that?
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
chilango Getting people switching to a more veggie diet and maintaining large scale food production is a lot more realistic than 11 million Londoners hunting mangy fox and raising chickens on their balconies. I have an allotment and would love to live in your world but short of the Luftwaffe pulverising the Capital again there isn't any space for smallholdings here. And people call me a hippy
I think in the mean-time getting people to think about their food sources and make informed choices based upon that and based upon what is possible for them is all we can do at the moment.
I'm no hippy, clearly, but I'm trying to grow my own veg on my new allotment, and within the allotments joining in the swapping of produce. Our eggs come from chickens that live on the allotment or in people's yards. My diet is mostly veggie but I'd like to eat more game, increase the amount of fish I eat that is caught by people i know fishing (at the moment we get the occasional trout like this) and reduce further the amount of supermarket bought, mass produced foods I eat. It's a process, i'm not there yet. Within the confines of a capitalist society there'll always be limits.
That is far more realistic and will have a greater impact than trying to guilt trip millions of people into being veggie by showing them horrific pictures of animal suffering.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it's a poster
it's a dig for victory poster
seventh bullet
sovietwave
Harking back to some pre-industrial idyll where the simple little people ate well instead of really doing the back-breaking work while their respective elites robbed it all except for an amount of the poorest quality that wouldn't mean death by starvation of the producers isn't going to help when looking at food production and distribution in the present and the potentially 'better' society of tomorrow.
Maybe I'm old-fashioned and uncool but I see communism as industrialised. Industry doesn't necessarily mean chimneys and ruined earth.
Maybe I'm old-fashioned and uncool but I see communism as industrialised. Industry doesn't necessarily mean chimneys and ruined earth.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
True, there is a real danger that being thoughtful of food production can easily slip into romantic delusion. I do think however, that the model of mass industrialised food production is one that primarily exists to boost profits. It is not the most appropriate (in most cases) for post-revolutionary food production. But of course there's a spectrum of production methods between hunter-gathering and Kraft.
fredfelt
Mostly unknown member
Are we really already at the point where we need to say it's capitalism that's the problem, not meat eating per se?
Or China, or overpopulation, anything to stop me thinking about possible solutions which may adversely impact on my lifestyle
seventh bullet
sovietwave
Industrialisation and mass production has also seen ordinary people gain plentiful access to decent food as well. On a global scale a communist society will require more than what hippy shite can offer.
krtek a houby
Kick me again Jesus
We are carnivorous by nature.
seventh bullet
sovietwave
Sure. I think we differ on our utopian conceptions of a future society.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
There is nothing I can or cannot change with my 'lifestyle' that can provide solutions to the problems. Aren't we at least 30 years past that hippy individualist bollocks now?
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
We probably do.
...but that's by the by.
It is, imho of course, just as dangerous to assume that mass industrialisation is automatically the answer as it is to assume that romantic Good Life style "hippy shit" is.
oneflewover
Following "The Tigers"
seventh bullet
sovietwave
Where have I done that, automatically? And the latter is present whether you personally disagree with it or not. And that definitely is a class thing.
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
it doesn't mention farming
What happens in the countryside? (apart from fox hunting, widespread racism and incest )
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
if it is so ubiquitous in the books you - or the estimable maggot - would have adduced some actual evidence by now instead of supposition and bluster.
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