Is it too late?
- Thread starter frogwoman
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danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
This is the point, isn’t it? “what might be able to be done without the State acting, etc.”
The thing is, it isn’t too late to stop things getting worse, if there is the political will. (And indeed, because it’s not a binary, that will go on for a while, as things taper away).
But the agency you or I have (as things stand, under late capitalism) is as nothing to the agency of those who actually need to act: governments and corporations. (And of course I’m not saying we as individuals therefore shouldn’t do anything. We must).
Looking at governments now is depressing. And they’ll be way ahead of corporations as far as willingness to act is concerned.
And here’s the rub: the individuals who need to act are by and large not especially stupid or especially evil. They’re just people. What’s preventing them acting are structural circumstances. The “realities” of capitalism.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
In 1985, Carl Sagan testified to a US Congress committee on climate change. In 1985.
lazythursday
Well-Known Member
This is very perceptive - and the political will thing is crucial. I was having a conversation recently with a friend who works closely with senior local authority directors / some of the mayoral authorities on climate issues. He says that by and large most of these individuals are convinced of the need to act, they can see the direction of travel, they know many (if not all) of the things they should be doing - but they don't have the political space to do it (and often the resources). So building some sort of movement that creates that political space, that challenges business-as-usual economic assumptions, must be the priority. I don't think the XR / JSO approach is helping us get to that.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Part of my thinking about doing stuff 'without the State' was related to that need for a movement to take the political space back and acting without/against the State around climate change; either carbon emission reductions or preparations for it more generally. It could be done in workplaces and where people live. There's a definite risk of it becoming just a well-meaning personal or community carbon reduction project that gets an approving mention in The Guardian, but I think that could also be avoided if thought through as part of the activity.
I mean it needs a more confrontational political movement as well of course....
bcuster
Well-Known Member
I thought this thread was a good place to post this. Indeed, is it to late...?
www.insider.com
Hawaii woman shocked as tourists are back to swimming at Maui's beaches just days after wildfire victims' bodies were pulled from the water
The woman said some tourists are carrying on with their vacations on fire-ravaged Maui despite calls to stay away from the island.
www.insider.com
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
I thought this thread was a good place to post this. Indeed, is it to late...?
Hawaii woman shocked as tourists are back to swimming at Maui's beaches just days after wildfire victims' bodies were pulled from the water
The woman said some tourists are carrying on with their vacations on fire-ravaged Maui despite calls to stay away from the island.
Last time I checked, there were 93 dead and it's still expected to rise. As I understand it, there wasn't any warning sirens and people got bunched up on an intersection on the way out of town and were blocked from leaving. Mostly the current count is from cars and they haven't gone in the houses yet. I doubt if they ever find some people.
bcuster
Well-Known Member
and the entitled tourists come & dance on their graves...
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
Holidays in other people's misery.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
Aquamarine
Well-Known Member
The space might soon open up enough for UK legislation on emissions reporting (for business. LAs etc.) - which is still all voluntary with national figures only providing crude estimations. The EU and the US are bringing in rules for disclosure that will force companies to adhere to emission standards. There is also modelling done by York University, Canada that shows it is myth that without GDP growth economies will collapse. So , maybe there is something of an impetus for consumer power to resize economies in line with the size of markets for renewables and sustainable alternatives.
bcuster
Well-Known Member
What a surprise! people make the consequences global warming worse:
www.yahoo.com
Development, tourism and climate change: How humans made Maui's catastrophic wildfires worse
The severity of the fires was caused by a number of factors, but the fires and the devastation they wrought raise questions about whether Hawaii’s largest industry could also have contributed to the catastrophe.
bcuster
Well-Known Member
Maui Fires Show Climate Change’s Ugly Reach
The deadly infernos remind us that no place on Earth will be untouched by global warming.
www.bloomberg.com
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danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
bcuster
Well-Known Member
Some Hawaii locals want tourists to stay away for good. Do they have a point?
The devastating fire on Maui has drawn renewed attention to the longstanding debate over whether the economic benefits of tourism in the state outweigh the harms it causes.
8ball
AV REFUGEES WELCOME
Some Hawaii locals want tourists to stay away for good. Do they have a point?
The devastating fire on Maui has drawn renewed attention to the longstanding debate over whether the economic benefits of tourism in the state outweigh the harms it causes.
3 million unemployed will def make things better for them.
bcuster
Well-Known Member
Maybe it is too late:
www.yahoo.com
Global heat in ‘uncharted territory’ as scientists warn 2023 could be the hottest year on record
NASA scientist issues grim warning 35 years after his original prediction: ‘[W]e knew it was coming’
"It means we are damned fools."
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LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Absolutely depressing and enraging bit of info from the US Republican candidate debate.
After all eight candidates declined to raise their hands when asked if they believed human behavior was causing the climate crisis, Ramaswamy jumped in, stridently rapping out: “Unlock American energy, drill, frack, burn coal, embrace nuclear.”
It has been a month of wildfire disaster in Hawaii and heavy flooding in California. The Fox News hosts pointed out that the climate crisis is the number one concern for young American voters. Regardless, the youngest candidate on stage ploughed on: “The climate change agenda is a hoax … more people are dying of bad climate change policies than they are of actual climate.”
www.theguardian.com
After all eight candidates declined to raise their hands when asked if they believed human behavior was causing the climate crisis, Ramaswamy jumped in, stridently rapping out: “Unlock American energy, drill, frack, burn coal, embrace nuclear.”
It has been a month of wildfire disaster in Hawaii and heavy flooding in California. The Fox News hosts pointed out that the climate crisis is the number one concern for young American voters. Regardless, the youngest candidate on stage ploughed on: “The climate change agenda is a hoax … more people are dying of bad climate change policies than they are of actual climate.”
Combative Vivek Ramaswamy emerges as surprise focal point of GOP debate
Biotech entrepreneur takes on Trump mantle in former president’s absence, drawing heavy fire from other candidates
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
There's a clip from the debate where the 8 candidates are asked to raise their hand if they'd still support Trump if he gets convicted. Four immediately stick their hands up to audience cheers, and then 3 more look about and slowly one by one raise theirs as well. Absolutely fucking wild, it looked just how kids behave when they just want to be not left out.
I am absolutely dreading the Republicans winning.
I am absolutely dreading the Republicans winning.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I didn't think they sold ready brek in americaAbsolutely depressing and enraging bit of info from the US Republican candidate debate.
After all eight candidates declined to raise their hands when asked if they believed human behavior was causing the climate crisis, Ramaswamy jumped in, stridently rapping out: “Unlock American energy, drill, frack, burn coal, embrace nuclear.”
It has been a month of wildfire disaster in Hawaii and heavy flooding in California. The Fox News hosts pointed out that the climate crisis is the number one concern for young American voters. Regardless, the youngest candidate on stage ploughed on: “The climate change agenda is a hoax … more people are dying of bad climate change policies than they are of actual climate.”
Combative Vivek Ramaswamy emerges as surprise focal point of GOP debate
Biotech entrepreneur takes on Trump mantle in former president’s absence, drawing heavy fire from other candidates
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Some say the devil is dead and buried in killarney
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
And while rome's extensive territories are on fire too
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
MORE SAY HE ROSE AGAIN
mojo pixy
שיר חדש
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
and joined the british army
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Absolutely depressing and enraging bit of info from the US Republican candidate debate.
After all eight candidates declined to raise their hands when asked if they believed human behavior was causing the climate crisis, Ramaswamy jumped in, stridently rapping out: “Unlock American energy, drill, frack, burn coal, embrace nuclear.”
It has been a month of wildfire disaster in Hawaii and heavy flooding in California. The Fox News hosts pointed out that the climate crisis is the number one concern for young American voters. Regardless, the youngest candidate on stage ploughed on: “The climate change agenda is a hoax … more people are dying of bad climate change policies than they are of actual climate.”
Combative Vivek Ramaswamy emerges as surprise focal point of GOP debate
Biotech entrepreneur takes on Trump mantle in former president’s absence, drawing heavy fire from other candidates
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
Absolutely depressing and enraging bit of info from the US Republican candidate debate.
After all eight candidates declined to raise their hands when asked if they believed human behavior was causing the climate crisis, Ramaswamy jumped in, stridently rapping out: “Unlock American energy, drill, frack, burn coal, embrace nuclear.”
It has been a month of wildfire disaster in Hawaii and heavy flooding in California. The Fox News hosts pointed out that the climate crisis is the number one concern for young American voters. Regardless, the youngest candidate on stage ploughed on: “The climate change agenda is a hoax … more people are dying of bad climate change policies than they are of actual climate.”
Combative Vivek Ramaswamy emerges as surprise focal point of GOP debate
Biotech entrepreneur takes on Trump mantle in former president’s absence, drawing heavy fire from other candidates
This is why I'm a Doomer. It's not the disasters or the challenge we face per se. We could still pull it together if we had leadership that was dedicated to fixing it, but we don't and we won't in time to make a real difference.
<edited to add>
The irony here is that the people who fund their campaigns are busy building survival bunkers in New Zealand and paying for seminars on how to keep your guards from slitting your throat and taking your shit after SHTF.
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