WouldBe
Dislicksick
Did it tap on the door?
Is it too late?
- Thread starter frogwoman
- Start date
Did it tap on the door?
Don’t faucet
maomao
普費斯
What are you basin that on?
Aquamarine
Well-Known Member
Adapt or die: Jem Bendell's radical vision to survive the climate crisis
The founder of the Deep Adaptation movement – which predicts that climate change will lead to nothing less than social collapse – has divided climate scientists and supercharged protest movements. Critics call him a doomsayer. Others say he’s the only one acknowledging the truth
A current interview with Jem Bendell of Deep Adaptation notoriety.
It is a very distressing read. i'm amongst those who feel wretched and pessimistic to the point that i can't discuss any of Bendell's work (or Hallams) predictions with friends or even close family. my youngest children both have really promising lives and careers ahead, and of course i only want to fuel their enthusiasms with supportive encouraging and congratulatory words and expressions of love. Capitalism has finally fucked us all hasn't it. It does not have the capacity to adapt to what is coming, and we do not have the political capability to overturn the system quickly enough to make any real difference. All of us face similar dilemas i know. How fucking tragic is the human condition in the early 21st century?
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
Bendell's original paper has been fairly thoroughly taken apart by people who really know the science - I don't think the current trajectory is as bad as he makes out. But that may be just a matter of time - add a few decades onto his predictions perhaps. I swing between cautious optimism and pretty severe pessimism. I work in the climate field, and I come across loads of positive action - lots of people are really trying to tackle this, in all sorts of institutions, the amount of people in relatively important positions of power who really get it and are grappling with the issues can sometimes feel quite reassuring. But then the government does some really fucking stupid thing like issue new oil and gas licences and it feels like everyone is pissing in the wind.
And here I am trying to work out how to sort my house out, get a heat pump etc, and it's all so fucking difficult and expensive... and I put my head in the sand for another few months and I'm someone who's really committed to this stuff. But on the other hand, various forms of green tech are at the tipping point of mass adoption potentially, perhaps things can really move faster than it feels possible. But ultimately it does feel like we need an enormous economic and cultural shift towards a whole new set of societal values, and it feels like the world is made up of mainly people who hate change and will fight it tooth and nail. And they have the backing of a really powerful set of vested interests.
I guess I believe there will eventually be some kind of set of disasters that will prove a cultural tipping point, globally. Multiple crop failures most likely. Lots of suffering.
And here I am trying to work out how to sort my house out, get a heat pump etc, and it's all so fucking difficult and expensive... and I put my head in the sand for another few months and I'm someone who's really committed to this stuff. But on the other hand, various forms of green tech are at the tipping point of mass adoption potentially, perhaps things can really move faster than it feels possible. But ultimately it does feel like we need an enormous economic and cultural shift towards a whole new set of societal values, and it feels like the world is made up of mainly people who hate change and will fight it tooth and nail. And they have the backing of a really powerful set of vested interests.
I guess I believe there will eventually be some kind of set of disasters that will prove a cultural tipping point, globally. Multiple crop failures most likely. Lots of suffering.
Aquamarine
Well-Known Member
I agree , it is tragic. It looks possible that discussion of collapse will soon be widespread. It is possible that this would impact in ways that are not yet clearly understood. De-growth to extend the glide still seems to make some sense.It is a very distressing read. i'm amongst those who feel wretched and pessimistic to the point that i can't discuss any of Bendell's work (or Hallams) predictions with friends or even close family. my youngest children both have really promising lives and careers ahead, and of course i only want to fuel their enthusiasms with supportive encouraging and congratulatory words and expressions of love. Capitalism has finally fucked us all hasn't it. It does not have the capacity to adapt to what is coming, and we do not have the political capability to overturn the system quickly enough to make any real difference. All of us face similar dilemas i know. How fucking tragic is the human condition in the early 21st century?
RedRedRose
Well-Known Member
This is very disconcerting to say the least.
Humberto
Relax
It doesn't seem like there's any real roadmap. Which is disturbing considering the consequences and danger that the great majority will experience to varying and progressively worsening degrees. And already are in many places. It's scientists and activists trying to encourage a serious and vigilant approach in vain. Why is this? It's fucking serious already and the future greatly uncertain but still governments are weak on the issue. Still we have a lack of action, political leadership and competence in richer countries to take the job on. To commit serious money and build an effective international coalition. That needs investment and organisation of resources. And mutual respect, equality and solidarity with poorer countries and their populations. And to sustain this indefinitely and keep moving forward as crises come along.
So what are these governments doing? Occasional lip-service, business as usual and fucking up younger generations' lives by bowing to the fossil fuels lobby. Actively undermining and weakening any advancement in the people's interest. So can governments ever be part of any solutions or progress, or will they always be a drag and an obstacle? Progress will always have opposition politically because of huge financial interest, power and influence. Even to protest is met with smears and draconian reaction. And many of those elected are occupied with diversionary nonsense. And yet it must happen somehow.
So what are these governments doing? Occasional lip-service, business as usual and fucking up younger generations' lives by bowing to the fossil fuels lobby. Actively undermining and weakening any advancement in the people's interest. So can governments ever be part of any solutions or progress, or will they always be a drag and an obstacle? Progress will always have opposition politically because of huge financial interest, power and influence. Even to protest is met with smears and draconian reaction. And many of those elected are occupied with diversionary nonsense. And yet it must happen somehow.
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Aquamarine
Well-Known Member
Although not deniers, there is still a large part of the public who believe climate change is cyclical. The Just Stop Oil groups etc could address that more specifically in their messaging. Those people are definitely blocking things and will absolutely resist any sacrifices. France’s Macron paused anti-carbon laws out of fear of the protest groups throwing the policies off course. It looks like states are just going to have to get tougher in their restrictions.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
Insurance companies are beginning to pull back in some places. You can't get a new home insurance policy in California. Its been difficult to get insurance in Florida for ages. Everywhere else the cost of insurance has doubled and tripled. I spent the last year jumping through hoops to keep mine because they've raised their demands so much. Ironically, they wanted me to cut down all the trees.
Insurance giant halts sale of new home policies in California due to wildfires
State Farm also cites inflation of construction costs in statement which comes after increasing wildfires in state
The bankers aren't pulling back because they're not the ones running the risk. What the banks are doing is making the loans and then bundling them. They roll thousands of loans into a block that are then sold-off without the investor knowing exactly what's in the pool. They'll say that the average credit score for the bundle is 700 and the (knowingly) bad loans are passed off with better ones.
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Yeah, insuring houses near the sea is getting much harder here in New Zealand too, the people hammered by rain and flooding in the North Island recently are going to be screwed by their insurance companies too.Insurance companies are beginning to pull back in some places. You can't get a new home insurance policy in California. Its been difficult to get insurance in Florida for ages. Everywhere else the cost of insurance has doubled and tripled. I spent the last year jumping through hoops to keep mine because they've raised their demands so much. Ironically, they wanted me to cut down all the trees.
Insurance giant halts sale of new home policies in California due to wildfires
State Farm also cites inflation of construction costs in statement which comes after increasing wildfires in statewww.theguardian.com
The bankers aren't pulling back because they're not the ones running the risk. What the banks are doing is making the loans and then bundling them. They roll thousands of loans into a block that are then sold-off without the investor knowing exactly what's in the pool. They'll say that the average credit score for the bundle is 700 and the (knowingly) bad loans are passed off with better ones.
Banks offering mortgages will follow the insurance eventually, the smaller market here means that there's less room to hide/mitigate risk and I think that some require insurance quotes for mortgages already.
Aquamarine
Well-Known Member
Links below are to Rebecca Solnit's Guardian article on Doomers and a response.
www.theguardian.com
medium.com
We can’t afford to be climate doomers | Rebecca Solnit
It often seems that people are searching harder for evidence we’re defeated than that we can win
Responding to Rebecca Solnit’s article in The Guardian on Doomers
Writer Rebecca Solnit was recently published in The Guardian and stated that:
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
Links below are to Rebecca Solnit's Guardian article on Doomers and a response.
We can’t afford to be climate doomers | Rebecca Solnit
It often seems that people are searching harder for evidence we’re defeated than that we can win
Responding to Rebecca Solnit’s article in The Guardian on Doomers
Writer Rebecca Solnit was recently published in The Guardian and stated that:
I'm a Doomer. I didn't used to be. However, I think we owe it to future generations to at least make a fight of it if we can. They'll need to see that people did care and tried to prevent the worst of it. They'll still hate us for what we'll leave behind though and rightfully so.
Aquamarine
Well-Known Member
It does looks bleak alright. To argue the Net Zero agenda is futilely taking away resources that should be better spent elsewhere feels like being abusive though. I 'm not about to embark on this discussion with the young people or their parents within my extended family.
Mumbles274
running from law and the press and the parents
Planet is fucked for humans. Planet will survive. We won't. Just a matter of when, not if. Hth
(haven't read thread BTW, just how I roll on climate change.. My fight was long ago. It's too late now, humans will go extinct)
Eta humans :the first creature to know it was making itsrlf extinct but didn't stop it!
Fuck humans, we are stupid
(haven't read thread BTW, just how I roll on climate change.. My fight was long ago. It's too late now, humans will go extinct)
Eta humans :the first creature to know it was making itsrlf extinct but didn't stop it!
Fuck humans, we are stupid
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
We may survive as a species. A lot of people are going to die, and civilization will be toast, but we might survive in reduced numbers. Hopefully, if we get that chance, we won't screw it up again.
Mumbles274
running from law and the press and the parents
Like birds rising from the ashes of dinosaurs lol
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
... and elephants from underground rodents.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
You're being unfair on us Homo sapiens. Most of us never get to make the decisions. We're no more stupid than orangutans, cats, gerbils or haddock.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
Just go from reading this thread to the SUV thread and marvel at the capacity of intelligent beings to refuse to even take the tiniest steps towards lower resource use.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Tbh I think the planet can't survive us living. Not the iron cored spheroid but everything else on the planet larger than bacteria. Not just because of the climate change but people's killing off animals whether for 'medicine' like the pangolins and rhinos and tigers or whatever. The way, before industrialisation, millions of animals were killed in siberia and canada for their fur for hats and the like. In 1930 there were maybe 10 million elephants in Africa. There's maybe 410,000 now. The number of whales that were killed in the 19th and 20th centuries... the buffalo, the passenger pigeons, the dodo, the auk... the planet could do with some tens of thousands of years to relax and allow the non-human wonders of the world the opportunity to thrive.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
It'll take a fucking long time for plastic to disappear too. That'll be poisoning the planet for a long long time to come
Distressing yet truthful post Pickman's. Life for non humans has become so thoroughly fucked up by us. The diabolical way we (and the economic system) treats the natural world leaves very few grounds for optimism. How very very sad.
I'm not comfortable with talking in binary terms, i.e. we're either fucked or not fucked. There are degrees of fuckedness, and as I understand it we still have agency over how fucked we become, and how soon.Links below are to Rebecca Solnit's Guardian article on Doomers and a response.
We can’t afford to be climate doomers | Rebecca Solnit
It often seems that people are searching harder for evidence we’re defeated than that we can win
Responding to Rebecca Solnit’s article in The Guardian on Doomers
Writer Rebecca Solnit was recently published in The Guardian and stated that:
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
Even recycling isn't what it's cracked up to be. I used to recycle plastics. Then, I discovered what they do with it here. They grind it up into tiny particles and put it on rural roads. That will only make the micro-plastics problem worse in the long run. The only way to keep plastics out of the environment is to limit its usage as much as possible.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
I am so glad I'll not be around to see the worst of it, I do feel for the younger generations, and will continue to do my bit, but it's clearly too late to stop serious change now. 
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
There's just so much to think about on this topic; both in terms of what's happening, the speed of it, the response (or lack thereof), the growing anti-green backlash, what we should be doing, what might be able to be done without the State acting, etc.
I think I need to try and order my thoughts on it for a discussion, even though much of it is questions rather than answers.
I think I need to try and order my thoughts on it for a discussion, even though much of it is questions rather than answers.
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