Is it left wing to tolerate crack dealers?

[TeeJay]

Not a call-out thread aimed at anyone in particular, more a spill-over from a thread on the brixton forum:

...the residents of Brixton (at least those who consider themselves in any sense "left-wing") should stop moaning about street dealers, instead accepting them as an inevitable element within the alternative culture of which they are rightly proud.

...What's the connection between being "left wing" and 'not complaining about crack dealers' again?

Just a matter of live-and-let-live among the lumpenproles. A matter of not sympathising with state oppression of the disenfranchised. A sense of common interests within a diverse community. A feeling of solidarity with those who have no chance to achieve a decent standard of living within the law. Things like that, which were once basic persuppositions of anarchist politics...

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So, not being an expert on being leftwing or on anarchist politics, I was wondering what people here think?

 

[Herbert Read]

only if they like crack.

 

[districtline]

no

 

[poster342002]

No it's not left-wing to tolerate crackdealers (or any other drug dealers, imo). Drug dealers actually blight the life of working class people who have to live in the areas the dealers inflict themsleves on. I would go so far as to describe the heavy-presence of aggressive dealers as an oppressive force of occupation in such area, and most certainly NOT welcoemd by working class people in those areas.

 

[tobyjug]

No it's not left-wing to tolerate crackdealers (or any other drug dealers, imo). Drug dealers actually blight the life of working class people who have to live in the areas the dealers inflict themsleves on. I would go so far as to describe the heavy-presence of aggressive dealers as an oppressive force of occupation in such area, and most certainly NOT welcoemd by working class people in those areas.

Quite, but try saying that in the drugs forum and watch the brickbats fly in your direction. It is the working class who have to put up with drug dealers and users in their midst with all the social ills they bring with them.

 

[knopf]

Quite, but try saying that in the drugs forum and watch the brickbats fly in your direction. It is the working class who have to put up with drug dealers and users in their midst with all the social ills they bring with them.

I agree with tobyjug.



Tolerating drug-dealers in working class areas is a cunt's trick & no mistake. Off to score & then back to your gentrified terrace or flat, what what? Very easy to be tolerant when you don't have to live with the consequences.

And as we all know, "tolerance" is a liberal virtue, not a left-wing one.

 

[poster342002]

Then there's the other sort of liberal middle-class tossers who deliberately move to an area blighted by drugs because it's "so terribly exciting and vibrant, dahling!" And then when the local and longstanding working-class population start to organise campaigns to get the dealers ousted, the fuckwitted liberal newcomers condescend to lecture the local working-class population on what they should be tolerating in their midst.

 

[Idaho]

Then there's the other sort of liberal middle-class tossers who deliberately move to an area blighted by drugs because it's "so terribly exciting and vibrant, dahling!" And then when the local and longstanding working-class population start to organise campaigns to get the dealers ousted, the fuckwitted liberal newcomers condescend to lecture the local working-class population on what they should be tolerating in their midst.

Not wanting to wake you up from a particularly enthralling dream - but aren't you talking crap? Gentrification of previously rough and ready areas is to do with property prices and transport links.

 

[tobyjug]

when the local and longstanding working-class population start to organise campaigns to get the dealers ousted, the fuckwitted liberal newcomers condescend to lecture the local working-class population on what they should be tolerating in their midst.

Tell me about it. It is even worse when the police have the same attitude because the can't be arsed to finish their do-nuts, waddle out of the police station and do a drugs bust.

 

[knopf]

Then there's the other sort of liberal middle-class tossers who deliberately move to an area blighted by drugs because it's "so terribly exciting and vibrant, dahling!" And then when the local and longstanding working-class population start to organise campaigns to get the dealers ousted, the fuckwitted liberal newcomers condescend to lecture the local working-class population on what they should be tolerating in their midst.

Fuck me, I don't think I've ever agreed with anyone this much in UK P&P.

A message to those cunts from Mr Jello Biafra: -

So you been to school
For a year or two
And you know you’ve seen it all
In daddy’s car
Thinkin’ you’ll go far
Back east your type don’t crawl

Play ethnicky jazz
To parade your snazz
On your five grand stereo
Braggin’ that you know
How the niggers feel cold
And the slums got so much soul

It’s time to taste what you most fear
Right guard will not help you here
Brace yourself, my dear¡*

It’s a holiday in cambodia
It’s tough, kid, but it’s life
It’s a holiday in cambodia
Don’t forget to pack a wife

You’re a star-belly sneech
You suck like a leach
You want everyone to act like you
Kiss ass while you bitch
So you can get rich
But your boss gets richer off you

Well you’ll work harder
With a gun in your back
For a bowl of rice a day
Slave for soldiers
Till you starve
Then your head is skewered on a stake

Now you can go where people are one
Now you can go where they get things done
What you need, my son¡*.

Is a holiday in cambodia
Where people dress in black
A holiday in cambodia
Where you’ll kiss ass or crack

Pol pot, pol pot, pol pot, pol pot, etc¡*.

And it’s a holiday in cambodia
Where you’ll do what you’re told
A holiday in cambodia
Where the slums got so much soul

 

[poster342002]

Although if the authorities are finally prodded into taking action against the dealers, the liberals stamp their foot and whine; "but it'll spoil the charm and charecter of the area!".

 

[Dilzybhoy]

As an ex dealer/user (i didn't sell coke but it's the same thing) I've got to say no.
FUCK NO!!!

should've said that then.

 

[bluestreak]

what a bunch of odd prejudices on this thread.

i guess some left-wingers tolerate crack and some don't. on the whole, most left-wingers i know tolerate the dealers in the sense of "don't set up vigilante stings on the motherfuckers" but certainly don't like living in the same areas as them. most people understand the motivations of those who use and sell the stuff, but at the same time don't believe it should happen, though seeking liberal and useful answers rather than authoritarian crackdowns.

 

[In Bloom]

It is funny how some on the left are so absolutely terrified at the prospect somebody might think they're a bit liberal that they engage in this sort of "hang 'em and flog 'em" bollocks. Let's kneecap all those filthy dealers, that'll completely solve all our problems

 

[knopf]

Let's kneecap all those filthy dealers, that'll completely solve all our problems.

Good post.

 

[neilh]

(or any other drug dealers, imo)

what, even including folk selling a wee bit of weed or pills and speed? even if they're getting most of their trade off working class folk who enjoy a smoke? so where are the w/c folk who smoke weed meant to get it, do you propose they should go to dealers in middle class areas?

 

[likesfish]

well thers load of reasons dealers are hanging around and lot of long time work to be done to get rid of them.
shooting a couple would be a start.
though personally I perfer hunting them with dogs big scary ridgebacks

 

[silentNate]

what, even including folk selling a wee bit of weed or pills and speed? even if they're getting most of their trade off working class folk who enjoy a smoke? so where are the w/c folk who smoke weed meant to get it, do you propose they should go to dealers in middle class areas?

You can buy drugs in my area (very working class, natch) but we would tolerate street dealers- most business is done in pubs or out of peoples houses...
Left-wingers prefer this btw

 

[poster342002]

what, even including folk selling a wee bit of weed or pills and speed? even if they're getting most of their trade off working class folk who enjoy a smoke? so where are the w/c folk who smoke weed meant to get it, do you propose they should go to dealers in middle class areas?

Believe it or not, I am actually in favour of "Amsterdam-style" licensed cafes, which would take the whole thing out of the hands of shitty gangsters. Until that happens, however, I'm not in favoure of simply letting hoodlums colonise w/c areas and spoiling the quality of life for the majorty of w/c people who have no interest in buying drugs and are thoroughly pissed off at the presence of the dealers hanging around and making the area unwelcoming to non-punters.

 

[Idaho]

I only buy working class drugs on middle class streets from leftwingers.

 

[poster342002]

Isn't the issue of bothersome drug dealers one of the most-frequenlty raised issues the IWCA hears when meeting w/c people?

 

[cathal marcs]

Let's kneecap all those filthy dealers, that'll completely solve all our problems

No one said it would cure the social ills but it will get rid of one sympton of the disease. Whats your sggestion in dealining with the problem rather than sniping?

On the issues of dealers it depends I think there is the world of difference to selling E to a few pals in a club than and selling crack. Smack/Crack dealers should get ONE warnng first to stop their trade if they continue its up what the community sees fit as a course of actionin my view.

 

[likesfish]

smoke or use whatever you like as long as you can afford your choice of drug
and are not disturbing other people.
start leaving needles in kiddies playgrounds and robbing people and its time to realise the crack hounds although the average smackhead won't give much sport a crack head should give a good couple of miles chase

 

[neilh]

Believe it or not, I am actually in favour of "Amsterdam-style" licensed cafes, which would take the whole thing out of the hands of shitty gangsters. Until that happens, however, I'm not in favoure of simply letting hoodlums colonise w/c areas and spoiling the quality of life for the majorty of w/c people who have no interest in buying drugs and are thoroughly pissed off at the presence of the dealers hanging around and making the area unwelcoming to non-punters.

the majority of working class folk? i dont know if thats always so clear cut in some areas anymore, especially among folk under 40; certainly although its common among all folk, i'd say in my experience smoking weed seems more prevelant up here with more working class folk than middle class folk, and speed and pills probably about the same among younger folk. and remember, the folk who turn up at political meetings arent necesarrily any kind of cross section covering all of the working class.
do agree about it's fucked though when it's just hoodlums dealing, but with weed i've found theres just as many who are just decent folk selling a bit to folk;
though the higher up the chain you go probably the more gang involved it gets; which is why instead of the dutch cafe way, i'd like to see it totally legalised so folk could grow their own.

 

[poster342002]

.

 

[Idaho]

That's a lot of folk.

Making this issue class based is preposterous. Drug use is not class-based.

 

[poster342002]

Good article about drugs and drug dealers in working class areas:

http://www.iwca.info/cutedge/ce0004.htm

And here's another good article about crime in w/c areas in general:

http://www.iwca.info/cutedge/ce0002.htm

Well worth a read.

 

[pk]

That's a lot of folk.

Making this issue class based is preposterous. Drug use is not class-based.

Good point, but the areas putting up with open drug-dealing are usually neglected w/c areas.

 

[editor]

Good article about drugs and drug dealers in working class areas:

http://www.iwca.info/cutedge/ce0004.htm

And here's another good article about crime in w/c areas in general:

http://www.iwca.info/cutedge/ce0002.htm

Well worth a read.

It is. The bit how dealers and users rob a community of its public space was particularly interesting:

The simple act of stopping to talk to a neighbour becomes a test of endurance if the surroundings are littered with drugs paraphernalia and there is an intimidating presence of drug users and dealers. Being able to stop and chat to a neighbour without being fearful of the surrounding environment is something that should be taken for granted

Yet the activities of an antisocial and criminal minority are serving to undermine the ordinary everyday interaction that gives a community a sense of cohesion. Taking away public space in this way is effectively an attack on the entire community

 

[Herbert Read]

Good article about drugs and drug dealers in working class areas:

http://www.iwca.info/cutedge/ce0004.htm

And here's another good article about crime in w/c areas in general:

http://www.iwca.info/cutedge/ce0002.htm

Well worth a read.

I despise teh IWCA but this does have some relevance and should be an area for debate much wider than it is on the left.