Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Sprocket.]

that looks lush

Forty-five minutes, door to door.

 

[Pickman's model]

Mushy peas in a ramekin is incorrect.

i tend to defer in these matters to the people who have a deeper knowledge of the issue than i, and if in places famous for their fish and chips like grimsby and cleethorpes they use a ramekin i'm inclined to feel it's acceptable

 

[brogdale]

Other than Theresa May's thrice rejected deal, I can't think of the last time significant numbers of Tories went against the Party. Now that it has become a matter of electoral life and death for the party (with Boris tying them to No Deal 31st October or bust), preventing No Deal is likely to do irreversible damage in the eyes of their supporters - the only people left who will support them.

They don't do well with young people, they don't do well with 25-40 year olds, they don't do well with anyone except the people who already vote Tory, and the Brexit Party like UKIP before them wait in the wings.

Oh yeah, it would be a Kamikaze mission; it's just whether they've got the guts to do it. Johnson obviously figures they've not, or there's not enough to sink the ship.

 

[SpackleFrog]

So just speculating - if we're saying that this means that Parliament can either get a VoNC through, or Johnson gets his no deal Brexit, when the VoNC goes through, will they actually let Corbyn be caretaker PM or will they have someone else?

Because once the VoNC goes through, it's just whoever can command a majority right?

 

[Sprocket.]

Since this announcement I’ve had three lads at work say, ‘what’s the point in voting, I’ll never vote again!’

Welcome to the club sez I.

 

[Pickman's model]

Oh yeah, it would be a Kamikaze mission; it's just whether they've got the guts to do it. Johnson obviously figures they've not, or there's not enough to sink the ship.

kamikaze means divine wind. johnson's guts more likely to produce gusts of the evil kind - we'll soon see, if he's given a wide berth in the house of commons

 

[SpackleFrog]

i tend to defer in these matters to the people who have a deeper knowledge of the issue than i, and if in places famous for their fish and chips like grimsby and cleethorpes they use a ramekin i'm inclined to feel it's acceptable

It's not. Polystyrene pot maybe, ramekin no. Ramekin's are for souffles and creme brulee not mushy peas leave means leave

 

[tommers]

It's not. Polystyrene pot maybe, ramekin no. Ramekin's are for souffles and creme brulee not mushy peas leave means leave

RED, WHITE & BLUE BREXIT!!!!11!!1!!

 

[brogdale]

So just speculating - if we're saying that this means that Parliament can either get a VoNC through, or Johnson gets his no deal Brexit, when the VoNC goes through, will they actually let Corbyn be caretaker PM or will they have someone else?

Because once the VoNC goes through, it's just whoever can command a majority right?

Yeah, under the FTPA there's 14 days in which (somehow) the ability of another leader to command the confidence of the house can be communicated to brenda.

 

[Pickman's model]

It's not. Polystyrene pot maybe, ramekin no. Ramekin's are for souffles and creme brulee not mushy peas leave means leave

i'm not usually a fan of the mushy peas, the main event being the fish and chips. so sometimes i do leave the greater part of the peas.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah, under the FTPA there's 14 days in which (somehow) the ability of another leader to command the confidence of the house can be communicated to brenda.

just for clarity is that 14 calendar days or 14 working days?

 

[brogdale]

just for clarity is that 14 calendar days or 14 working days?

I'll check.

 

[Tacit Apathy]

Oh yeah, it would be a Kamikaze mission; it's just whether they've got the guts to do it. Johnson obviously figures they've not, or there's not enough to sink the ship.

I worry that it'll be the latter - some vote with conscience rather than with party, but not enough as the rest run scared.

So just speculating - if we're saying that this means that Parliament can either get a VoNC through, or Johnson gets his no deal Brexit, when the VoNC goes through, will they actually let Corbyn be caretaker PM or will they have someone else?

Because once the VoNC goes through, it's just whoever can command a majority right?

I'd be very surprised considering past objections to Corbyn if they let him be Caretaker PM, but if the alternative is literally crashing out without a deal with Johnson at the helm, we might see it.

Personally I think Corbyn needs to step back and to the side, let someone with a fresh face take up the mantle of leadership with Corbyn in the wings managing the campaign somewhat. That way Labour has a remove from his poisoned 'brand image', if it can be called that, and the other parties have deniability - "we didn't put Corbyn in at least".

Since this announcement I’ve had three lads at work say, ‘what’s the point in voting, I’ll never vote again!’

Welcome to the club sez I.

Always makes me sad to hear it, but whilst I strongly disagree with not voting I really can't say I don't understand how people have got to that point with the whole flaming mess of it all...

 

[brogdale]

I'll check.

Just 14 days (calendar), I think.

 

[SpackleFrog]

I'd be very surprised considering past objections to Corbyn if they let him be Caretaker PM, but if the alternative is literally crashing out without a deal with Johnson at the helm, we might see it.

Once the VoNC goes through, anyone who can show they command a majority can be PM and I feel that's unlikely to be Johnson or Corbyn.

 

[Teaboy]

Personally I think Corbyn needs to step back and to the side, let someone with a fresh face take up the mantle of leadership with Corbyn in the wings managing the campaign somewhat. That way Labour has a remove from his poisoned 'brand image', if it can be called that, and the other parties have deniability - "we didn't put Corbyn in at least".

I'm not convinced that Labour choosing this moment to conduct a leadership campaign is an especially good idea.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Once the VoNC goes through, anyone who can show they command a majority can be PM and I feel that's unlikely to be Johnson or Corbyn.

Do we all get to put in a 500 word expression of interest?

 

[Tacit Apathy]

Once the VoNC goes through, anyone who can show they command a majority can be PM and I feel that's unlikely to be Johnson or Corbyn.

Yeah, realistically it'll have to be a combination of Labour, Lib Dem, SNP and Tory rebels, and who of that bunch commands enough respect cross-party? I'm drawing a blank...

I'm not convinced that Labour choosing this moment to conduct a leadership campaign is an especially good idea.

As in primarying for a GE, or trying to replace Corbyn?

 

[SpackleFrog]

i'm not usually a fan of the mushy peas, the main event being the fish and chips. so sometimes i do leave the greater part of the peas.

Incorrect.

 

[binka]

Wouldn't the smarter move by Corbyn be to allow this to happen (No Deal) and wait for the presumably-quite-bad-post-Brexit-chaos before embarking on GE moves?

Which is also why I can't see him letting anyone else be pm in gnu. Either they back him and he saves the country from no deal before taking us into a ge or they don't back him and he can pick up the pieces after and blame it all on the Tories and Lib Dems

 

[Mr Moose]

i'm not usually a fan of the mushy peas, the main event being the fish and chips. so sometimes i do leave the greater part of the peas.

All we are saying, is GIVE PEAS A CHANCE.

 

[Gaia]

So in summary, Corbyn and Johnson both want the opposite of what they say they want.

More-or-less. Wankface's Torygraph columns prior to the referendum were really bigging up the EU and how it would be "crazy" to leave. The thing with Johnson and Corbyn is that they're both populists; Corbyn is an avowed Bennite (and we all know what Anthony Wedgwood Benn thought of the EEC/EU, that's what his '5 questions' referred to). Corbyn, like Benn, has always viewed the EU as some kind of neoliberal superstate, hellbent on assimilating the whole of Europe but, if saying that he now opposes Brexit will get him where he wants to be (i.e. No. 10) then he'll say he opposes Brexit, likewise with Wankface, he wants to remain PM and he knows that the only way for him to remain PM is to pander to the ERG and Farage.

Corbyn has a similar problem; he wants to become PM but he doesn't want to sound too Remain-y and risk pissing off the Lexiters, who believe he's betraying them and his principles. Neither Corbyn nor Johnson are fit to be PM, both are career politicians who will say whatever it takes to get to - or remain in - No. 10. In my opinion, neither can be trusted to do what's best for the country. As it stands, what we need is some kind of cross-party remain alliance government (which will forever remain in the realms of fantasy). The next best thing we can hope for is someone with some bollocks to depose JC, but I can't see that happening any time soon, either.

TL;DR: we're fucked.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Do we all get to put in a 500 word expression of interest?

Only if you're an MP.

 

[Pickman's model]

Incorrect.

i think i have a better notion than you of whether i am a fan of the mushy pea

 

[SpackleFrog]

Yeah, realistically it'll have to be a combination of Labour, Lib Dem, SNP and Tory rebels, and who of that bunch commands enough respect cross-party? I'm drawing a blank...

Not sure about respect but I reckon they'll agree on anyone they are confident will fuck Johnson and Corbyn at the same time. Tom Watson could work.

 

[SpackleFrog]

i think i have a better notion than you of whether i am a fan of the mushy pea

I wasn't claiming to know your feelings on mushy peas better than you, I was just saying your feelings are incorrect.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Only if you're an MP.

WILL OF THE PEOPLE!

Not sure you'll find a single person in parliament who could command a majority at this stage.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not sure about respect but I reckon they'll agree on anyone they are confident will fuck Johnson and Corbyn at the same time. Tom Watson could work.

tom watson who bigs up nonce fantasists?

 

[Pickman's model]

I wasn't claiming to know your feelings on mushy peas better than you, I was just saying your feelings are incorrect.

in the people's democratic socialist republic of britain you will be served mushy peas and you will like them

 

[Tacit Apathy]

Corbyn has a similar problem; he wants to become PM but he doesn't want to sound too Remain-y and risk pissing off the Lexiters, who believe he's betraying them and his principles. Neither Corbyn nor Johnson are fit to be PM, both are career politicians who will say whatever it takes to get to - or remain in - No. 10. In my opinion, neither can be trusted to do what's best for the country. As it stands, what we need is some kind of cross-party remain alliance government (which will forever remain in the realms of fantasy). The next best thing we can hope for is someone with some bollocks to depose JC, but I can't see that happening any time soon, either.

This is a pretty good summary of where we're at right now. Two career politicians effectively embracing populism as a last-gasp effort to get where they want (No. 10) or stay where they want to be (No. 10 again). No one in either party has the balls to stand up and say "No, this is stupid, let's get some sensible people in the Chair" because everyone's rightly running scared of the idea of No Deal Brexit or a government dissolution.

Because of how highly strung the situation is, we can't replace Corbyn without throwing Labour into chaos, and there's no chance of getting rid of Boris after he's just won an internal leadership contest without a General Election - which again, distracts both parties from what they should be doing at this point, which is sorting out Brexit somehow.

Not sure about respect but I reckon they'll agree on anyone they are confident will fuck Johnson and Corbyn at the same time. Tom Watson could work.

I'm not even close to 100% on Watson, I think he's tarnished a little bit although I admire his health transformation.