Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[philosophical]

I am not trying to make a point, I am just taking the piss out of you, as a one trick pony, and complete boring twat.

In that case as far as you're concerned

 

[philosophical]

That “so” suggests you think the latter is a logical consequence of the former. It is not.

The truth of the matter is that it isn’t up to voters, however they voted, to come up with plans. Even if they did, their best chance of being heard is to lodge a petition, which would be debated in parliament if it reached the requisite threshold, and then disregarded.

Voters vote. Their ‘plans’ are irrelevant to the government.

No.
The 'so' suggests it is me replying to xenon.

 

[danny la rouge]

No.
The 'so' suggests it is me replying to xenon.

OK. But do you seem to repeatedly say it is up to voters to come up with plans. In my view, that’s not how it works in practice.

 

[philosophical]

OK. But do you seem to repeatedly say it is up to voters to come up with plans. In my view, that’s not how it works in practice.

I take your point about how things seem to work in practice.
However my brexit obsession is exactly how things will work 'in practice' on the border.
In a lot of cases when people vote for stuff in manifestos or in promises made in other forms it has an open ended feel, 'we will end rough sleeping, and the need for food banks' is something I would vote for and hope things move in a positive direction over time.
But this brexit thing does not have fuzzy edges as far as I can see. In or out. Over here and over there. End of. This is taking into account how often a can gets kicked down the road.
Something pretty specific must come about in practice by a particular time, in this case the 31st October so we're led to believe.
Nothing generalised or fuzzy there, like there might be in voting for any kind of idealistic aspiration.

Which is why if you voted for it and knew what you were doing you should sort it.

Unless I suppose you (not actually you) voted brexit and are prepared to say you didn't have a clue, if enough people did that wouldn't it mean all bets are off?

 

[Pickman's model]

I take your point about how things seem to work in practice.
However my brexit obsession is exactly how things will work 'in practice' on the border.
In a lot of cases when people vote for stuff in manifestos or in promises made in other forms it has an open ended feel, 'we will end rough sleeping, and the need for food banks' is something I would vote for and hope things move in a positive direction over time.
But this brexit thing does not have fuzzy edges as far as I can see. In or out. Over here and over there. End of. This is taking into account how often a can gets kicked down the road.
Something pretty specific must come about in practice by a particular time, in this case the 31st October so we're led to believe.
Nothing generalised or fuzzy there, like there might be in voting for any kind of idealistic aspiration.

Which is why if you voted for it and knew what you were doing you should sort it.

Unless I suppose you (not actually you) voted brexit and are prepared to say you didn't have a clue, if enough people did that wouldn't it mean all bets are off?

It's very simple, it won't work on the border

 

[cupid_stunt]

BTW, where's Corbyn?

He seems to have gone AWOL.

 

[danny la rouge]

I take your point about how things seem to work in practice.
However my brexit obsession is exactly how things will work 'in practice' on the border.
In a lot of cases when people vote for stuff in manifestos or in promises made in other forms it has an open ended feel, 'we will end rough sleeping, and the need for food banks' is something I would vote for and hope things move in a positive direction over time.
But this brexit thing does not have fuzzy edges as far as I can see. In or out. Over here and over there. End of. This is taking into account how often a can gets kicked down the road.
Something pretty specific must come about in practice by a particular time, in this case the 31st October so we're led to believe.
Nothing generalised or fuzzy there, like there might be in voting for any kind of idealistic aspiration.

Which is why if you voted for it and knew what you were doing you should sort it.

Unless I suppose you (not actually you) voted brexit and are prepared to say you didn't have a clue, if enough people did that wouldn't it mean all bets are off?

I understand that you’re frustrated by the continued lack of concrete progress on the border between NI and the Republic. But I don’t follow why you think it is up to Leave voters to sort this (whereas you say vague manifesto promises you might vote for aren’t up to you to sort).

I disagree. It is not up to voters.

It is up to Johnson to sort the border issue. God save us every one.

 

[belboid]

I take your point about how things seem to work in practice.
However my brexit obsession is exactly how things will work 'in practice' on the border.
In a lot of cases when people vote for stuff in manifestos or in promises made in other forms it has an open ended feel, 'we will end rough sleeping, and the need for food banks' is something I would vote for and hope things move in a positive direction over time.
But this brexit thing does not have fuzzy edges as far as I can see. In or out. Over here and over there. End of. This is taking into account how often a can gets kicked down the road.
Something pretty specific must come about in practice by a particular time, in this case the 31st October so we're led to believe.
Nothing generalised or fuzzy there, like there might be in voting for any kind of idealistic aspiration.

Which is why if you voted for it and knew what you were doing you should sort it.

Unless I suppose you (not actually you) voted brexit and are prepared to say you didn't have a clue, if enough people did that wouldn't it mean all bets are off?

Oddly enough, you make no sense. If 'ending rough sleeping' is 'fuzzy' leaving the EU is even more so. If there are still rough sleepers, then you haven't ended rough sleeping. It's pretty straight forward. And if the last three years have taught nothing else, they should have shown quite clearly that leaving the EU is fuzzy as hell too.

 

[Supine]

BTW, where's Corbyn?

He seems to have gone AWOL.

Not grouse hunting apparently

 

[philosophical]

Oddly enough, you make no sense. If 'ending rough sleeping' is 'fuzzy' leaving the EU is even more so. If there are still rough sleepers, then you haven't ended rough sleeping. It's pretty straight forward. And if the last three years have taught nothing else, they should have shown quite clearly that leaving the EU is fuzzy as hell too.

"Ending rough sleeping' is more fuzzy than saying 'A total end to all rough sleeping by Christmas Day'.

 

[belboid]

"Ending rough sleeping' is more fuzzy than saying 'A total end to all rough sleeping by Christmas Day'.

But they do put dates in - end of this parliament is the commonest phrase. The word total is tautologous. All your doing is showing how you can quibble about anything, which blatantly obviously fits with ‘leaving the eu’

 

[philosophical]

I understand that you’re frustrated by the continued lack of concrete progress on the border between NI and the Republic. But I don’t follow why you think it is up to Leave voters to sort this (whereas you say vague manifesto promises you might vote for aren’t up to you to sort).

I disagree. It is not up to voters.

It is up to Johnson to sort the border issue. God save us every one.

God save us indeed. From him, but also from anybody who might take any action to empower him in any way.
It seemed to me that he was empowered from people of the left as well as the right, some would be called lexiters, and he could be empowered yet again by people who believe in fairy tales more than thinking about practical consequences.
I say leave voters should sort the mess because I don't believe remain voters need have any part of it, but it is with trepidation because I am concerned that the solution that leave voters must inevitably come to is to risk a return to conflict in Ireland and elsewhere.

 

[philosophical]

But they do put dates in - end of this parliament is the commonest phrase. The word total is tautologous. All your doing is showing how you can quibble about anything, which blatantly obviously fits with ‘leaving the eu’

There doesn't seem to me to be much quibble room in this question.

 

[belboid]

God save us indeed. From him, but also from anybody who might take any action to empower him in any way.
It seemed to me that he was empowered from people of the left as well as the right, some would be called lexiters, and he could be empowered yet again by people who believe in fairy tales more than thinking about practical consequences.
I say leave voters should sort the mess because I don't believe remain voters need have any part of it, but it is with trepidation because I am concerned that the solution that leave voters must inevitably come to is to risk a return to conflict in Ireland and elsewhere.

‘These people are idiotic scum, so I’ll leave them to sort it out’

Seems to be a fair précis of your argument

 

[belboid]

There doesn't seem to me to be much quibble room in this question.

Dear god, you really do know how to contradict yourself don’t you?

Not even any date on that. Let alone mention of CU etc etc etc

 

[philosophical]

‘These people are idiotic scum, so I’ll leave them to sort it out’

Seems to be a fair précis of your argument

I didn't use the term 'scum' or 'idiotic' for that matter.

 

[philosophical]

Dear god, you really do know how to contradict yourself don’t you?

Not even any date on that. Let alone mention of CU etc etc etc

Are you saying the question on the ballot paper was 'fuzzy' after all, and I can't see that?

 

[Supine]

There will be a border in Ireland. Philosophical - just get used to the idea. It'll be a blame game for who and when, but it'll happen if brexit is implemented without without a deal or customs union.

The same may well happen with Scotland, but that's not being discussed yet.

 

[belboid]

Are you saying the question on the ballot paper was 'fuzzy' after all, and I can't see that?

Using the terms in the example of fuzzy you gave before, yes, it very clearly is. For the reasons I’ve already said.

 

[Ming]

If I ruled the world there'd be no one in it

Me too. I’d go to Blackpool pleasure beach and go on all the rides (no queues!). And i’d put the rides on automatic (before anyone points that out). I can handle the candy floss myself.

 

[MrCurry]

This seems portentous and pretty worrying tbh

UK 'first in line' for US trade deal, says Bolton

Am I misreading it or is there a strong suggestion that the UK is heading full steam towards becoming America’s bitch, more fully and completely than ever before? Can you imagine the danger to UK foreign relations in a post no-deal Brexit scenario with Trump’s hands wrapped firmly around Boris’s balls, giving a quick sharp squeeze each time he wants the Uk to dance to his demented tune? So much for Brexit giving the UK control of its own destiny.

 

[danny la rouge]

I say leave voters should sort the mess

How?

 

[Pickman's model]

How?

Leaving no doubt and leaving the country to the likes of philosophical

 

[Pickman's model]

This seems portentous and pretty worrying tbh

UK 'first in line' for US trade deal, says Bolton

Am I misreading it or is there a strong suggestion that the UK is heading full steam towards becoming America’s bitch, more fully and completely than ever before? Can you imagine the danger to UK foreign relations in a post no-deal Brexit scenario with Trump’s hands wrapped firmly around Boris’s balls, giving a quick sharp squeeze each time he wants the Uk to dance to his demented tune? So much for Brexit giving the UK control of its own destiny.

People in Congress have already said no trade deal if gfa fucked with. And no deal fucks with gfa. A trade deal is not in the gift of trump

 

[danny la rouge]

Leaving no doubt and leaving the country to the likes of philosophical

No, Phil voted Remain.

 

[Pickman's model]

No, Phil voted Remain.

I think he'd like all the Leavers to depart the country forthwith

 

[danny la rouge]

I think he'd like all the Leavers to depart the country forthwith

And sort the NI border by Skype.

 

[Pickman's model]

And sort the NI border by Skype.

He couldn't sort out his books by author so sorting out the border by Skype is something of a big ask

 

[Ranbay]

 

[Pickman's model]

View attachment 180687

we already have a sufficiency of muppets