Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Humberto]

A lot of people are saying they don't want a Brexit where we leave with no idea of where we are going to be in a years time. They (hard Brexiters) aren't exactly putting much flesh on the bones of an argument as to why it will 'all be fine'. They won't do that because the next couple of years, I would guess, are going to bring an attempt at an extensive programme of tearing apart the foundations of ordinary people's NHS and other services, e.g welfare. I don't think we will leave on or by the 31st October though. It will be a long extension to 'sort this mess out' or something.

 

[SpackleFrog]

which bit



how many people who are classed as remainers don't care if the result makes them poorer

Got more to lose though haven't they?

 

[Ax^]

that is the real sad bit

most leave supporters will lose more from the final result

but they "Voted to leave"

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

which bit



how many people who are classed as remainers don't care if the result makes them poorer

If you have nothing, reducing that tenfold makes no difference. The status quo meant more nothing, so why should someone give a fuck?

 

[Ax^]

because when my mother had a heart attack 2 years ago

I did not have 60 grand to pay for the treatment

and that is without the rest of a consequences

 

[Bonkers2867]

If you have nothing, reducing that tenfold makes no difference. The status quo meant more nothing, so why should someone give a fuck?

Leaving the EU will make their situation 10 times worse.

 

[toblerone3]

I would absolutely dispute the idea that leavers are more rabid. Complete headbangers on the absolutes of both. There are many hardline remain weirdos who's brains have melted. I'm closely related to some.

Am I a complete headbanger for feeling that the most of the arguments in favour of staying in the EU are non-economic. The attraction of European culture, civic soceity and intellectual exchange and international friendship. The dislike of the far right, isolationists xenophobic left etc on the other. As such I would have voted remain even if it would cause economic damage to Britain. As it happens all the indicators suggest exactly the opposite. Anyway environment improving for all is more important than GDP.

 

[Ax^]

As it happens all the indicators suggest exactly the opposite.

 

[SpackleFrog]

that is the real sad bit

most leave supporters will lose more from the final result

but they "Voted to leave"

According to you. And you're a muppet.

How much do you think we've gained already from the damage inflicted on the Tories?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Leaving the EU will make their situation 10 times worse.

Twenty eight times worse, at least. And they’ve done the maths and still don’t give a fuck.

 

[Ax^]

According to you. And you're a muppet.

How much do you think we've gained already from the damage inflicted on the Tories?

Boris Johnson as PM..

 

[treelover]

Am I a complete headbanger for feeling that the most of the arguments in favour of staying in the EU are non-economic. The attraction of European culture, civic soceity and intellectual exchange and international friendship. The dislike of the far right, isolationists xenophobic left etc on the other. As such I would have voted remain even if it would cause economic damage to Britain. As it happens all the indicators suggest exactly the opposite. Anyway environment improving for all is more important than GDP.

are you comfortably off?

 

[Proper Tidy]

Am I a complete headbanger for feeling that the most of the arguments in favour of staying in the EU are non-economic. The attraction of European culture, civic soceity and intellectual exchange and international friendship. The dislike of the far right, isolationists xenophobic left etc on the other. As such I would have voted remain even if it would cause economic damage to Britain. As it happens all the indicators suggest exactly the opposite. Anyway environment improving for all is more important than GDP.

Dunno. I'd probably point out that the EU is a trade bloc and that European culture could mean Hungary or Estonia or Bulgaria or France or Greece, so not really any more a common culture than countries outside the EU might have with each other. It's not all balmy nights drinking espresso outside cafes.

Also that many of the constituent parts of the EU have far right governments or strong & prominent far right tendencies, which the EU either doesn't sanction or pays lip service to sanctioning, and that the EU itself rigidly enforces its borders at the expense of vulnerable displaced peoples, including the setting up of camps in Turkey - a country which is also a state actor in the displacement of vulnerable peoples... As well as the EU being remarkable for its lack of democracy even compared to its peers, as demonstrated recently by the 'election' of Von der Leyen as commission president (which really means EU president).

Its environmental record isn't great either.

But not really much point because it's hard to get through the emotionally driven woo on either side. Personally I'm mainly arsed about jobs and homes and food in cupboards and all that material stuff but each to their own.

 

[sleaterkinney]

I would absolutely dispute the idea that leavers are more rabid. Complete headbangers on the absolutes of both. There are many hardline remain weirdos who's brains have melted. I'm closely related to some.

Unless you're the fuck it up lol type of leaver you by definition believe some sort of fantasy scenario.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Unless you're the fuck it up lol type of leaver you by definition believe some sort of fantasy scenario.

I am a fuck it up lol type leaver

 

[toblerone3]

Its [the EU's] environmental record isn't great either.

So are there lots of areas of environmental regulation where the UK has been pushing for better environmental regulation for the EU but has had pushback from other European countries. I thought it was mainly the other way around.

 

[Proper Tidy]

So are there lots of areas of environmental regulation where the UK has been pushing for better environmental regulation for the EU but has had pushback from other European countries. I thought it was mainly the other way around.

Nice reframing there.

What environmental impact do you think the EU subsidy system (which benefits big farmers) has? Generally positive or negative?

 

[SpackleFrog]

Boris Johnson as PM..

Ahhh so you agree.

 

[Teaboy]

I've been reading up on proroguing of Parliament. Its seems highly unlikely that Johnson could make it happen even if he wanted to. Beyond him scrambling through some sort of re-branded version of May's deal is there any route to Brexit happening in October?

Just seems to me that a GE is virtually inevitable now.

 

[Raheem]

I've been reading up on proroguing of Parliament. Its seems highly unlikely that Johnson could make it happen even if he wanted to. Beyond him scrambling through some sort of re-branded version of May's deal is there any route to Brexit happening in October?

Just seems to me that a GE is virtually inevitable now.

Don't see that there's any way Brexit can happen in October. But an alternative to a GE would be an art 50 extension for renegotiation, with the shithead being hailed as a genius by his party for his amazing, steely bluff.

 

[Don Troooomp]

I deliberately didn't vote in the poll until the new leader was sorted out, then I voted there would be an independent UK,
I didn't vote that way because I want out of the EU, more because I think Boris the gob will deliver and, if the deadline comes along, he'll simply let it, thus forcing a 'no deal'.
I hope I'm wrong.

 

[butchersapron]

I deliberately didn't vote in the poll until the new leader was sorted out, then I voted there would be an independent UK,
I didn't vote that way because I want out of the EU, more because I think Boris the gob will deliver and, if the deadline comes along, he'll simply let it, thus forcing a 'no deal'.
I hope I'm wrong.

 

[toblerone3]

Nice reframing there.

What environmental impact do you think the EU subsidy system (which benefits big farmers) has? Generally positive or negative?

There are other things going on which are nothing to do with the EU's subsidy system. Blaming things on the EU which are really caused by other things is something you share with your allies on the right.

In the 1950s and 60s there was rapid consolidation of farms with mechanisation and new techniques away from the traditional farm towards and agribusiness approach. The EU system has, if anything slowed the process of consolidation. It is likely to pick up speed again if we leave the EU and negotiate an agricultural trade deal with the US which is likely to sacrifice agricultural and environmental concerns in favour of concessions on financial services.

 

[Proper Tidy]

There are other things going on which are nothing to do with the EU's subsidy system. Blaming things on the EU which are really caused by other things is something you share with your allies on the right.

In the 1950s and 60s there was rapid consolidation of farms with mechanisation and new techniques away from the traditional farm towards and agribusiness approach. The EU system has, if anything slowed the process of consolidation. It is likely to pick up speed again if we leave the EU and negotiate an agricultural trade deal with the US which is likely to sacrifice agricultural and environmental concerns in favour of concessions on financial services.

No idea what the first para means. EU subsidy system encourages intensive factory style farming. This is not a new or controversial criticism.

Anyway, the point I made was that the EU's environmental record is shit. You disagree?

 

[Pickman's model]

I deliberately didn't vote in the poll until the new leader was sorted out, then I voted there would be an independent UK,
I didn't vote that way because I want out of the EU, more because I think Boris the gob will deliver and, if the deadline comes along, he'll simply let it, thus forcing a 'no deal'.
I hope I'm wrong.

You are

 

[toblerone3]

Anyway, the point I made was that the EU's environmental record is shit. You disagree?

Yes I do I disagree with your substantive point Yes you are right in the sense that in absolute terms every countries' environmental record is shit, but the EU has generally had a much stronger policy than the US, for instance and the record of British environmental policy when we were outside the EU.

For environmental policy it is MUCH better that we stay in the EU and reform from the inside. For example I don't think Britain, on its own would have had as much success as the EU in rolling out progressive emissions standards for ICE vehicles and getting US vehicle manufacturers to play ball.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Yes I do I disagree with your substantive point Yes you are right in the sense that in absolute terms every countries' environmental record is shit, but the EU has generally had a much stronger policy than the US, for instance and the record of British environmental policy when we were outside the EU.

Well you don't disagree then

 

[sleaterkinney]

Twenty eight times worse, at least. And they’ve done the maths and still don’t give a fuck.

Thing is though, at the time of the vote i never spoke to a leaver who thought we would get a worse deal, or no deal at all.

 

[Rivendelboy]

Yes I do I disagree with your substantive point Yes you are right in the sense that in absolute terms every countries' environmental record is shit, but the EU has generally had a much stronger policy than the US, for instance and the record of British environmental policy when we were outside the EU.

For environmental policy it is MUCH better that we stay in the EU and reform from the inside. For example I don't think Britain, on its own would have had as much success as the EU in rolling out progressive emissions standards for ICE vehicles and getting US vehicle manufacturers to play ball.

How can we reform it from within?

 

[butchersapron]

Thing is though, at the time of the vote i never spoke to a leaver who thought we would get a worse deal, or no deal at all.

We?

Your posts are coming from a total bubble.