Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Mr Moose]

You've just claimed that those you voted leave are responsible for the rise of the hard-right

Like I said, those tendencies were there, Brexit has given encouragement for them to be expressed.

You had your reasons for voting leave, I disagree with them, doesn’t mean I’m calling you a racist.

If you believe neoliberalism encourages racism and the EU is neoliberal then are you calling all Remainers racist?

Daft line of argument. Everyone’s a racist now father. You’re not and neither am I.

 

[Mr Moose]

not at the time we won't, it will be quite apparent

Expand please. It all sounds very good, but there do seem to be an extraordinary number of ways the blame can be diverted.

 

[Pickman's model]

Expand please. It all sounds very good, but there do seem to be an extraordinary number of ways the blame can be diverted.

But rejected for what by who?

it will become apparent. if it doesn't we can revisit the point.

 

[redsquirrel]

Like I said, those tendencies were there, Brexit has given encouragement for them to be expressed.

You had your reasons for voting leave, I disagree with them, doesn’t mean I’m calling you a racist.

If you believe neoliberalism encourages racism and the EU is neoliberal then are you calling all Remainers racist?

Daft line of argument. Everyone’s a racist now father. You’re not and neither am I.

Unlike you I've always recognised that people vote based on any number of reasons. I've always been totally clear that though I disagree with them I can see why people might have voted remain. It is a daft line of argument but it's your line.

 

[SpackleFrog]

This stop Brexit to stop the hard right is just vote XXX to keep BNP/UKIP/BP/FN/AfD out writ large. A strategy that has seen the hard-right prosper.

It's interesting to see this from people who are usually dismissive of the SWP as well.

 

[SpackleFrog]

I don't think farage will return to private life for some time yet

I didn't say he would!

 

[SpackleFrog]

But that’s what Brexit is.

According to you, but as you've demonstrated, you don't know what's going on.

 

[Pickman's model]

I didn't say he would!

good

 

[Pickman's model]

According to you, but as you've demonstrated, you don't know what's going on.

and how fortunate he is

 

[Mr Moose]

According to you, but as you've demonstrated, you don't know what's going on.

Do tell us what’s going on Marvin. In your own words.

 

[Mr Moose]

it will become apparent. if it doesn't we can revisit the point.

No one's going to be able to prove you wrong.

 

[Pickman's model]

No one's going to be able to prove you wrong.

you say that like it's a bad thing

 

[ice-is-forming]

You know that no one outside of Gb/europe gives a toss right?

 

[sleaterkinney]

it's also short-sighted as - frankly - brexit or no brexit the far-right will make hay out of it

I think a vote to remain would have diminished them.
The leave vote did boost them and now Farage and his rich boy backers now have a victory that they can use.

 

[mojo pixy]

You know that no one outside of Gb/europe gives a toss right?

How very dare they uncare so.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think a vote to remain would have diminished them.
The leave vote did boost them and now Farage and his rich boy backers now have a victory that they can use.

yeh, i think now there's no way out of this that's that palatable

 

[Mr Moose]

Unlike you I've always recognised that people vote based on any number of reasons. I've always been totally clear that though I disagree with them I can see why people might have voted remain. It is a daft line of argument but it's your line.

It’s not my line. I can see why if you are at the bottom shaking the dice makes sense. I can see why arguing for Lexit rather than the EU’s continuing capital project is compelling. But the main political thrust for Brexit is delivered by more parochial neoliberals who want a MAGA style UK politics where frictionless trade with the US and a rolling back of regulation and protection, both economic and cultural is the ultimate aim.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Do tell us what’s going on Marvin. In your own words.

People are angry and are rejecting the established order. That anger can be channelled in many different directions.

It’s not my line. I can see why if you are at the bottom shaking the dice makes sense. I can see why arguing for Lexit rather than the EU’s continuing capital project is compelling. But the main political thrust for Brexit is delivered by more parochial neoliberals who want a MAGA style UK politics where frictionless trade with the US and a rolling back of regulation and protection, both economic and cultural is the ultimate aim.

You mean the ruling class are in power? Oh lordy. Whatever shall we do?

 

[Mr Moose]

People are angry and are rejecting the established order. That anger can be channelled in many different directions.



You mean the ruling class are in power? Oh lordy. Whatever shall we do?

Everyone’s angry. That’s the UK. And how is the established order being rejected? We are about to get an old Etonian as PM while the most popular political figure in respect of Brexit is a former broker who went to Dulwich College. Key deliverable? A trade deal with the US.

You are dreaming. Name one good direction it is being channelled in.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Everyone’s angry. That’s the UK. And how is the established order being rejected? We are about to get an old Etonian as PM while the most popular political figure in respect of Brexit is a former broker who went to Dulwich College. Key deliverable? A trade deal with the US.

You are dreaming. Name one good direction it is being channelled in.

Can't argue with this - clearly no positive channel for the resentment and alienation that drove the leave vote at present, which is why hard right making hay

 

[SpackleFrog]

Everyone’s angry. That’s the UK. And how is the established order being rejected? We are about to get an old Etonian as PM while the most popular political figure in respect of Brexit is a former broker who went to Dulwich College. Key deliverable? A trade deal with the US.

You are dreaming. Name one good direction it is being channelled in.

All superstructure, no base. Trade deal with US blah blah blah.

I'm not dreaming. I didn't say it was being channelled in a positive direction. I'm just saying that you won't be able to channel that anger towards support for Remain and that you are actively aiding and abetting the development of the far right by ignoring this.

E2A: It's not just the UK by the way - it's everywhere, and I'm tired of Little Englander remainers ignoring this.

 

[Santino]

Tom Watson says that 'only by remaining in the EU can we remain the same Britain at heart that we’ve been for 1000 years'. Does he mean a quiet backwater on the edge of Europe ruled by a moneyed elite? Or a warmongering colonial superpower?

 

[cupid_stunt]

Watson is a twat, best ignored TBH.

 

[gosub]

Tom Watson says that 'only by remaining in the EU can we remain the same Britain at heart that we’ve been for 1000 years'. Does he mean a quiet backwater on the edge of Europe ruled by a moneyed elite? Or a warmongering colonial superpower?

Run by the French.

 

[Flavour]

to bring up a point that's been discussed before and becomes pertinent again if we have a "brexiteer" PM...
there's absolutely no legal reason why we should have to wait until halloween to formally exit the EU.
A really serious Brexiter Pm could just take us out today.
Would Johnson have the balls to do that?
course not.
which tells you everything.

 

[agricola]

Tom Watson says that 'only by remaining in the EU can we remain the same Britain at heart that we’ve been for 1000 years'. Does he mean a quiet backwater on the edge of Europe ruled by a moneyed elite? Or a warmongering colonial superpower?

To have a thousand years of history to pick from and come up with that argument is just dreadful. He would be better off saying how many times people from here have had to go over there and deal with some jumped-up despot who wanted to rule the continent, and how our abandonment of involvement in European affairs is both a betrayal of what those people suffered and an invitation for the next despot to have a go at it.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Britain as it exists now (Great Britain and Northern Ireland) is actually about 97 years old.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Britain as it exists now (Great Britain and Northern Ireland) is actually about 97 years old.

I think you mean -' the UK as it exists now'.

 

[SpackleFrog]

I think you mean -' the UK as it exists now'.

yeah whatevs

 

[belboid]

We have been at war with either Europe or ourselves for nigh on 500 of those 1000 years, so the current situation seems to be somewhere around the median point of that time. Topped and tailed by fifty years of control by Europe...and looks like we could be redoing The Anarchy next