Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[SpookyFrank]

It'll be found on the trans-pennine express between Doncaster and Scunthorpe

Impossible. The Transpennine express doesn't go to Scunthorpe.

Oh no wait yes it does. Anyone currently on that train maybe check under your seat for any top-secret impact assessments. They may be written in crayon.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The Council of Europe ones you mean?

Whoever it is that keeps telling us we can't deport people into the vacuum of space.

 

[Raheem]

Whoever it is that keeps telling us we can't deport people into the vacuum of space.

That'll be why Dyson is pro-Brexit, maybe.

 

[gosub]

OK so the EEA is EU + EFTA - Switzerland because nothing can just be simple can it? Note all the current EFTA countries are within the Schengen area.

but Schengen ISN'T an actual requirement of EFTA. We WILL join EFTA but not be in Schengen.

 

[gosub]

The Council of Europe ones you mean?

But you can't be in any of the EUropean clubs if you don't adhere to the Council of Europe's Convention on Human Rights.

 

[gosub]

Yeh. But yer man says as per headline joining the court may be Britain's way out of ecj morass, not come and join efta.

Can't find the article in the actual print version of the paper. But is only a way out of ECJ morass if you are a member of EFTA. Its an EFTA thing, it only applies to EFTA members

 

[Silas Loom]

Can't find the article in the actual print version of the paper. But is only a way out of ECJ morass if you are a member of EFTA. Its an EFTA thing, it only applies to EFTA members

If you really want to appease Pickers, there are dozens of articles about Baudenbacher saying how great EFTA would be for the UK. He does seem to be the main cheerleader, though, and presumably there would be other views within EFTA.

 

[gosub]

If you really want to appease Pickers, there are dozens of articles about Baudenbacher saying how great EFTA would be for the UK. He does seem to be the main cheerleader, though, and presumably there would be other views within EFTA.

I'm more inclined to burn down his fucking library and then demand I'm tried in Tokyo High Court

 

[Pickman's model]

If you really want to appease Pickers, there are dozens of articles about Baudenbacher saying how great EFTA would be for the UK. He does seem to be the main cheerleader, though, and presumably there would be other views within EFTA.

So yer man is making efta overtures

 

[pocketscience]

It still shows that Greece is a large net recipient. In fact the 2nd biggest in absolute terms - before you take into account population size.

Yours isn't divided by population. Poland has a much larger population than Greece.

Why should Poland (and to a greater extent Hungary on a per capita basis) receive so much while greece is being forced below the breadline and asset stripped
Regardless of populations sizes, Poland, Hungary and the Baltics are nowhere near as in need of financial support as the Greeks.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Why should Poland (and to a greater extent Hungary on a per capita basis) receive so much while greece is being forced below the breadline and asset stripped
Regardless of populations sizes, Poland, Hungary and the Baltics are nowhere near as in need of financial support as the Greeks.

I don't defend anything that has been done to Greece. But the UK leaving the EU, for many advocates of brexit, is in order to give zero to Greece or anywhere else. That said don't underestimate the challenges facing places like Hungary. They have inherited decades of neglect that need addressing.

 

[SpackleFrog]

decades of neglect

 

[pocketscience]

I don't defend anything that has been done to Greece. But the UK leaving the EU, for many advocates of brexit, is in order to give zero to Greece or anywhere else. That said don't underestimate the challenges facing places like Hungary. They have inherited decades of neglect that need addressing.

I actually know Hungary quite well. I dont see any signs of major neglect. In fact it seems fairly affluent considering (unemployment rate below 5% compared to greece's 21%)

 

[andysays]

I don't defend anything that has been done to Greece. But the UK leaving the EU, for many advocates of brexit, is in order to give zero to Greece or anywhere else. That said don't underestimate the challenges facing places like Hungary. They have inherited decades of neglect that need addressing.

Not for many (or at least anyone sensible, as far as I can see) here, so this isn't really an honest argument in the context of the discussion we're having here.

I for one have nothing against the principle of redistribution from richer to poorer, but whatever benefits the Greek people may have derived from EU money in the past, it appears to me that the major beneficiaries of the payments from net contributor EU countries currently are the bankers for whose benefit the Greek people are now compelled to follow super-austerity.

Or maybe you can point to beneficial new projects about to start in Greece which will be jeopardised by the loss of Britain's future contributions to Greece, the new schools or hospitals, for instance, which they're just about to build?

 

[bimble]

What a fucking mess.
Parliamentlive.tv
David Davis explains that the dog ate all of his homework .

 

[redsquirrel]

Not for many (or at least anyone sensible, as far as I can see) here, so this isn't really an honest argument in the context of the discussion we're having here.

I for one have nothing against the principle of redistribution from richer to poorer, but whatever benefits the Greek people may have derived from EU money in the past, it appears to me that the major beneficiaries of the payments from net contributor EU countries currently are the bankers for whose benefit the Greek people are now compelled to follow super-austerity.

Or maybe you can point to beneficial new projects about to start in Greece which will be jeopardised by the loss of Britain's future contributions to Greece, the new schools or hospitals, for instance, which they're just about to build?

Not to mention how much of this "re-distribution" comes with strings attached regarding "open up markets", "reforms", etc, etc.

You might as well argue the G8 was a good thing because it wrote off the debt of some developing countries (in exchange for measures attacking society).

 

[Silas Loom]

What a fucking mess.
Parliamentlive.tv
David Davis explains that the dog ate all of his homework .

He started off saying that, but has now conceded that he doesn't actually have a dog.

 

[bimble]

Can it really be true that there are no impact assessments at all?

 

[kabbes]

The impact is astronomical. I dont know what my company spent on Brexit in 2017 but I do know it has budgeted $15m for 2018. And this is light compared with others in the market. No value add for that spend either, just money into the aether.

 

[bimble]

It says here that 500 billion pounds 'has been made available' for the process of brexiting. Don't know if that Includes the cost of hiring 8,000 more civil servants.
(Is that a typo seems completely mad?)

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Did I mishear that the cabinet decided to leave the customs union without doing an economic impact assessment?

 

[Silas Loom]

Over what timeframe? Government spends roughly £780bn a year IIRC.

 

[mauvais]

Did I mishear that the cabinet decided to leave the customs union without doing an economic impact assessment?

No. Would have been too complicated, apparently.

 

[bemused]

Did I mishear that the cabinet decided to leave the customs union without doing an economic impact assessment?

It isn't really a choice. If you leave the EU you leave the customs union.

 

[mojo pixy]

Impact Assessments would've involved listening to experts, which Gove famously reckoned everyone had had enough of of doing.

 

[Silas Loom]

It isn't really a choice. If you leave the EU you leave the customs union.

You can be in a customs union, though. Which is the option which was rejected rather high-handedly.

That said, there were some options proposed by think-tanks for associate membership which would have preserved membership of the EU customs union together with some other mechanisms for BINO. With enough goodwill and commitment to preserving the status quo I guess anything would have been theoretically possible.

 

[ska invita]

Clarity on the Labour Brexit position? Keeping in the customs union and the single market, + long transition period
i cant imagine them doing anything else but that at this stage
Labour announces fundamental shift in Brexit policy

 

[Silas Loom]

Clarity on the Labour Brexit position? Keeping in the customs union and the single market, + long transition period
i cant imagine them doing anything else but that at this stage
Labour announces fundamental shift in Brexit policy

That report massively overstates what Starmer said, which anyway was followed up by a clarifying piece of spokespersonry that muddled things still further. Labour is still flexibility and cake.

 

[BemusedbyLife]

Clarity on the Labour Brexit position? Keeping in the customs union and the single market, + long transition period
i cant imagine them doing anything else but that at this stage
Labour announces fundamental shift in Brexit policy

I love this line “the government opened a veto bar up in front of a bunch of veto-holics"

 

[ska invita]

That report massively overstates what Starmer said, which anyway was followed up by a clarifying piece of spokespersonry that muddled things still further. Labour is still flexibility and cake.

you might well be right - hence my use of a ? mark. My hunch is this is the direction of travel though