Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[DotCommunist]

worth it for the 'veto bar open in front of veto holics' line tho

 

[bemused]

Clarity on the Labour Brexit position? Keeping in the customs union and the single market, + long transition period
i cant imagine them doing anything else but that at this stage
Labour announces fundamental shift in Brexit policy

Have you ever stood behind someone at an airline checkin who spends 20 minutes fucking around?

That person is more decisive and less frustrating that the Labour Brexit policy.

At this point, I've just gotten used to them not having one.

 

[bemused]

You can be in a customs union, though. Which is the option which was rejected rather high-handedly.

That said, there were some options proposed by think-tanks for associate membership which would have preserved membership of the EU customs union together with some other mechanisms for BINO. With enough goodwill and commitment to preserving the status quo I guess anything would have been theoretically possible.

I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with some one-way tariff-based trade deal. A euro tax.

 

[killer b]

For Labour to retain it's current polling, it needs to both keep hold of the anti-brexit voters that overwhelmingly supported them at the general election, and keep hold of the pro-brexit voters which didn't abandon them as expected. Any position other than the ambiguous holding pattern they currently have risks losing one or the other part of that coalition, and any chance of them being able to wrench power from the tories if/when the government collapses. It might be frustrating, but it's good politics.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

One of the most polluted places on the planet. It doesn't surprise me that it's up there in the EU net recipient list at the moment.

 

[SaskiaJayne]

Absolutely it’s good politics. Labour just need to let the tories die at their own chosen speed.

Different posters will have different views. Mine is that a Labour victory at next GE is more important than the outcome of brexit.

 

[Winot]

It isn't really a choice. If you leave the EU you leave the customs union.

How does it work for Turkey then? Isn't it in *the* CU?

 

[ska invita]

For Labour to retain it's current polling, it needs to both keep hold of the anti-brexit voters that overwhelmingly supported them at the general election, and keep hold of the pro-brexit voters which didn't abandon them as expected. Any position other than the ambiguous holding pattern they currently have risks losing one or the other part of that coalition, and any chance of them being able to wrench power from the tories if/when the government collapses. It might be frustrating, but it's good politics.

true, but theres tea leaf reading to be done in regards what their real position is, and i think there is a position...I think its a safe bet that Starmer at least wants to stay in the common market etc

 

[killer b]

I think their position is to remain as flexible as possible, and allow as few hostages to fortune as possible.

 

[bemused]

How does it work for Turkey then? Isn't it in *the* CU?

It's in a customs union with the EU, not in the EU customs union. For example, Turkey there is a 4.7% tariff on agricultural goods from Turkey as it is excluded from the CU. The CU only covers industrial goods but excluded things the UK would like to sell; services for example.

 

[bemused]

I think their position is to remain as flexible as possible, and allow as few hostages to fortune as possible.

They just look lost to me. Every time I hear Keir Starmer talk he has a different point of view - at some point that's going to become a running joke. They aren't doing themselves any favours, one of the reasons Corbyn is popular with people who like him is that he's pretty straightforward.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Labour set out "6 tests for Brexit" earlier this year:

1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU?

2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union?

3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities?

4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom?

5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime?

6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK?

 

[MightyTibberton]

Excitingly, I have learned through watching this thing that a lot of pro-Brexit MPs are complete and utter fucking lying idiots.

 

[mauvais]

You have to feel a little bit sorry for David Davis. Homework so late and dog so imaginary that he was desperate to bravely die his death anywhere but Brexit, scrabbling around for grenades to eat on Damian Green's porn-infested hill, but none were to be found.

 

[MightyTibberton]

Indeed. But at least he managed to deliver his lies with enormous condescension and obvious contempt for the committee. By the end of it he couldn't even look any of them in the eye. What a shambles.

 

[DotCommunist]

ha. Just reading a piece where tory reminers are reffered to as 'tory moderates'. So thats it now, Labour moderates= the labour right. Tory moderates= tory remainers. Glad thats all sorted and none of these 'moderates' are actually dangerous ideologues and spivs regardless of their brexit stance

 

[Silas Loom]

Labour set out "6 tests for Brexit" earlier this year:

Did you post those tests because you thought they represented a plausible Brexit strategy? There's enough conflict between 2,3 and 4 for the list to be essentially cakist.

 

[Silas Loom]

You have to feel a little bit sorry for David Davis. Homework so late and dog so imaginary that he was desperate to bravely die his death anywhere but Brexit, scrabbling around for grenades to eat on Damian Green's porn-infested hill, but none were to be found.

Agreed. The Porn Ultimatum always looked like a sneaky way to scurry off, dignity theoretically intact.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Can it really be true that there are no impact assessments at all?

The level of obfuscation going on certainly suggests a stalling tactic while someone in another room hastily cobbles any old shit together.

 

[bimble]

The level of obfuscation going on certainly suggests a stalling tactic while someone in another room hastily cobbles any old shit together.

When Mogg spoke it was to underline that there definitely were no impact assessments at all whatsoever no siree. It is very weird.

 

[SpookyFrank]

You have to feel a little bit sorry for David Davis. Homework so late and dog so imaginary that he was desperate to bravely die his death anywhere but Brexit, scrabbling around for grenades to eat on Damian Green's porn-infested hill, but none were to be found.

There is a curse, they say may your wishes be granted. Davis wanted brexit and now he's got it, etched on a millstone slung round his own neck.

 

[SpookyFrank]

When Mogg spoke it was to underline that there definitely were no impact assessments at all whatsoever no siree. It is very weird.

Was that the same committee meeting? I didn't last more than five minutes of Davis' pathetic blustering.

 

[bimble]

Yep this morning's shitshow. I watched the whole thing, until the end where Davis walks off and someone says 'right', into to the silent room.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Did you post those tests because you thought they represented a plausible Brexit strategy? There's enough conflict between 2,3 and 4 for the list to be essentially cakist.

no, they represent the "flexibility" of the labour position

 

[gosub]

Yep this morning's shitshow. I watched the whole thing, until the end where Davis walks off and someone says 'right', into to the silent room.

The Perm Sec at DExEU was on after Davis. He said the Civil Service bible had a definition of what an 'impact assessment' was, and the work carried out by the CS for the redacted report handed over to MPs was not such an assessment.


Still, I've got some new lines to try on my bank manager- a so called expert who refuses to believe I'm going to win the lottery next month.

 

[Mr Retro]

Shit display there by the lad Jeremy

 

[SpookyFrank]

 

[Winot]

It's a variation of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle - you can know the detail of the impact studies or their existence, but not both.

 

[Wilf]

It's a variation of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle - you can know the detail of the impact studies or their existence, but not both.

Nah, it's this:

 

[killer b]

They just look lost to me. Every time I hear Keir Starmer talk he has a different point of view - at some point that's going to become a running joke. They aren't doing themselves any favours, one of the reasons Corbyn is popular with people who like him is that he's pretty straightforward.

I think their line is pretty straightforward tbh: honour the result of the referendum while retaining as many of the benefits of the EU as possible, and flexibility on how that is achieved.

Starmer has been consistent throughout, as far as I've seen - what's he said where he's contradicted himself?