Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[littlebabyjesus]

There's also the problem that standards will drift apart over time, Assuming we can sign a trade deal with the madman on the other side of the pond, it might very well involve us taking the feared chlorinated chicken for example, the Irish and the EU will want to keep that out, over time we'll change or simply not keep up on lots of fronts such as environmental issues, quality standards or employment rights.
If we stay in the customs union then we have to keep up with these things, one of the big attraction of a hard Brexit to a lot of politicians is cutting back on what they see as red tape from the EU.

Davis is explicit about this - it is what he wants. Deals with the likes of India and China that do not meet the environment, quality or employment standards of the EU. imo this alone is reason enough to oppose brexit, and it's what the pro-brexit tories have been after from the start. We knew this.

Beyond its intrinsic evilness in nakedly racing to the bottom, the idiocy of the Davis position is its hopeless naivety about how the EU is likely to respond to such a wheeze.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Isn’t the problem that you will still need checks on the Irish border to stop the stuff that doesn’t meet EU regs getting in?

No, because we will give them our word that the poisonous chicken and North Korean video recorders we’re flogging are for outside of the EU only.

 

[kabbes]

tbh whatever the reason given, there is a point here. Where was the consultation with ROI before the referendum from leave campaigners? It just highlights yet again that there was no plan for how to do it. The vote was empty in that sense - remain, well we knew what that meant; we still don't know what leave really means.

The history of this stuff matters. It is not a coincidence that the UK and Ireland joined the EU at the same time. There has been a common travel area since long before that. And before that, the UK ruled Ireland, in not a very nice way.

I’m not sure what it is you’re saying here. Is it that the UK should consult with foreign powers before deciding on whether or not to hold a referendum?

 

[Pickman's model]

tbh whatever the reason given, there is a point here. Where was the consultation with ROI before the referendum from leave campaigners? It just highlights yet again that there was no plan for how to do it. The vote was empty in that sense - remain, well we knew what that meant; we still don't know what leave really means.

so you think the leave campaign should have consulted with the irish government pisspoor

The history of this stuff matters. It is not a coincidence that the UK and Ireland joined the EU at the same time. There has been a common travel area since long before that. And before that, the UK ruled Ireland, in not a very nice way.

yeh. and what do you make of the uk's post-1922 administration of the six counties?

it may not be a coincidence that the uk & ireland joined the eec (not eu) at the same time but anyone who knows anything of the subject knows that the uk had tried to join in the 1960s only to meet de gaulle's famous non

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I’m not sure what it is you’re saying here. Is it that the UK should consult with foreign powers before deciding on whether or not to hold a referendum?

It's one of the many contradictions inherent to the idea that a government would call a referendum over a change that the government itself doesn't want. Propose something that has such fundamental consequences that you consider a referendum necessary - that's one thing. You set out your plan (which would include consulting with the ROI over the border issue), and if you win, great, you get to do that thing, but you're still held accountable if it goes wrong. Lose, well you don't get to do that thing.

But propose not doing something that has fundamental consequences and holding a referendum over that? Why? If you win, fine, you don't have to do anything. But if you lose, then what? You didn't want to do it. You might not even consider it possible. You might consider it damaging. You certainly haven't worked out how to do it, and those campaigning for doing that thing could say whatever they wanted - UKIP in particular knew full well that they wouldn't be involved in doing brexit so they could peddle whatever lies they wanted with no accountability.

So there were plenty of plans, but there was no plan. Why is brexit happening - to what end? The tories in charge of it now have stated several times - May in particular - that it has to mean controlling immigration, so stopping all those Poles from coming here and working, the fiends. But I didn't see immigration on the ballot paper. It's a fuck-up, and there's nothing democratic about this process. The idea that it is 'the will of the British people' is a sick joke, and is being used by some very nasty people with very nasty aims - the likes of Arlene Foster, quoted earlier.

 

[Winot]

I think the political class will be very wary of any further referendums. And I think Remainers calling for a second referendum are mistaken.

 

[Silas Loom]

I think the political class will be very wary of any further referendums. And I think Remainers calling for a second referendum are mistaken.

I'm agnostic on a second referendum. But if 16-18s are allowed to join in, and there are a complex number of options for participants to weight, and it's billed as a "democratic consultation" or somesuch, it could provide air cover for doing the sensible thing.

 

[DotCommunist]

see ireland had to be polled twice to get the 'right' answer over Lisbon. different times though. pre-crash

 

[redsquirrel]

Twice for Nice too.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

see ireland had to be polled twice to get the 'right' answer over Lisbon. different times though. pre-crash

Yep. That was shit, and the Lisbon Treaty contains a lot of stuff that needs to be opposed.

 

[flypanam]

It doesn’t matter. A sovereign nation shouldn’t expect that another sovereign nation will arrange its own governance in any way other than those which its citizens find most appealing.

There’s a big difference between what the Irish state is saying and the personal opinions of irish citizens. But on that point everyone in The six counties entitled to irish citizenship. Maybe they should not have an opinion and air it.Yet the British state has always had it say in the free state. Even to the point of placing bombs in Dublin and Monaghan and even my home town. So yes the free marketeers should shut up but don’t get so outraged over radio interviews.

 

[flypanam]

see ireland had to be polled twice to get the 'right' answer over Lisbon. different times though. pre-crash

Also on the basis that the EU thought we owed them something after the structural funding. Blair and Brown were a big pusher for the re run of the referendums

 

[Silas Loom]

So, indications so far would suggest that there isn't going to be any kind of resolution on the three main issues today.

 

[hot air baboon]

not the line being reported on R4 this morning which was about positivity & optomism.

Even if we clear the Irish veto thing that is just a foretaste of all the other veto's that can be played like a whole pack of Jokers as the poker game shifts to the trade agreement

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

not the line being reported on R4 this morning which was about positivity & optomism.

Even if we clear the Irish veto thing that is just a foretaste of all the other veto's that can be played like a whole pack of Jokers as the poker game shifts to the trade agreement

Getting a bit boring now... The man who took on the EU has destroyed Theresa May's Brexit tactics


Either go crawling back to the EU and pretend the whole thing never happened or fuck 'em off now and spend the next 15 months getting ready for WTO.

 

[Silas Loom]

not the line being reported on R4 this morning which was about positivity & optomism.

Even if we clear the Irish veto thing that is just a foretaste of all the other veto's that can be played like a whole pack of Jokers as the poker game shifts to the trade agreement

It's not a poker game, and that analogy is genuinely toxic. This isn't about information asymmetry, it's about trade-offs between competing priorities. Stuff from Davis about "showing our hand" is a lie to cover up the lack of any solutions to the absurd constraints the Tories have set themselves.

 

[Idris2002]

Turns out the potato-munchers had some formidable backers;

 

[Idris2002]

Ah'll jist leave this here, och aye the noo, hoots mon:

 

[pocketscience]

Turns out the potato-munchers had some formidable backers;

Let me guess, the same "formidable backers" that review and rubber stamp their budget before even their own government or population has the privilege to do so?

 

[Idris2002]

Let me guess, the same "formidable backers" that review and rubber stamp their budget before even their own government or population has the privilege to do so?

They are also kind to their old mum.

 

[Silas Loom]

This Connelly chap now says The draft text on Ireland has since been updated to include the phrase "continued regulatory alignment" rather than "no regulatory divergence", acc to well-placed sources

That is not enough for a seamless border, surely.

 

[hot air baboon]

just seen a rather clever comment elsewhere to the effect if May offers the same to Scotland then she can swap the DUP for the SNP ( she may ask for her billion pound cheque back aswell )

 

[redsquirrel]

Why's that a clever comment when the SNP have ruled out any deal to prop up the Tories? I know that the word of politicians isn't to be relied on but the SNP would have to be idiots to make any such deal, it'd damage them immensely.

 

[Silas Loom]

Stay on this board for long enough and it's possible to agree with redsquirrel about something.

 

[DotCommunist]

I read somewhere that they can expect to lose seats back to labour next time around, any deal with satan would make it a lot of seats

 

[gosub]

Ah'll jist leave this here, och aye the noo, hoots mon:

I thought it was just a further demonstration of how much the SNP bullshitted in the Indy referendum. "There wouldn't be a hard border with England" they said, "We'd still be a member of EU" they said....Catalonia?


If they had thought things through then, and said 'we'll go down the EFTA route', not only would I have voted YES but rUK would probably now be following their lead. Rather than Scotland being a wallflower in negotiations and Sturgeon being made to look stupid with her desperate shenanigans after the EU referendum

 

[Kaka Tim]

Getting a bit boring now... The man who took on the EU has destroyed Theresa May's Brexit tactics


Either go crawling back to the EU and pretend the whole thing never happened or fuck 'em off now and spend the next 15 months getting ready for WTO.

article is from 6 months ago.

 

[ska invita]

Turns out the potato-munchers]

Ah'll jist leave this here, och aye the noo, hoots mon:
]

has Prince Philip got your log in or is this just you

 

[hot air baboon]

oh alright - how's the Ashes going ?

 

[bemused]

Turns out the potato-munchers had some formidable backers;

Surely that means that the rest of the UK will be in the same regulatory regime? Unless there is some amazing plan to put a border between Northern Ireland and Wales, Scotland and England?