Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Sasaferrato]

I think point is why should it be necessary for there to be any government intervention in companies training their staff? For yrs after around the 80s when firms stopped training their staff they were to be able to advertise for experienced staff & recruit them. This was because of the massive unemployment in the 80s. The lament of the unemployed was always “how can I get any experience if nobody will train me?”

Obviously the lack of training being offered would eventually come back to bite them on the bum & we now have a skills shortage. Why should paying people properly while they are being trained be any issue at all?

The pay rates set by Wilson's (IIRC) government were too high for small companies, who by their number actually trained the most apprentices. I do take your point about unemployment, I was a victim of it. I moved my family from Scotland to the South of England for employment.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The fuckwitted idea of doing away with bursaries for student nurses, and making them pay tuition fees, will deter a lot of people from taking up nursing.

Just as a large contingent of experienced nurses are approaching retirement age too.

It's almost as if voting tory was somehow a bad idea.

 

[Yossarian]

Do you have a source for that? Doctors are more in demand across the world than nurses.

Doctors who have retrained as nurses (known as “nurse medics”) in order to seek overseas employment are a new and growing phenomenon. While exact numbers are not available, a study on this trend showed that in 2001, approximately 2,000 doctors became nurse medics and by 2003, that number increased to about 3,000 (Pascual, Marcaida, and Salvador 2003).

Nurse Migration from a Source Country Perspective: Philippine Country Case Study

 

[sealion]

Largest annual fall in net migration since records began was announced today, and we’ve not even brexited yet.

The official statisticians say the reduction could be due to economic changes across the EU, such as improved job opportunities and the fall in the value of the pound. There's also been an increase in skilled workers visas.

 

[coley]

You don't get this control with most spending at this level. For example, Scotland currently has higher public expenditure than it collects from the Scottish in tax revenue, so English taxpayer money is flowing there, and yet much of the spending decisions are devolved to the Scottish parliament, quite rightly. All you can do about it is attempt to vote out the entire system. As you can and presumably have with the EU.

But if you were going to complain about it on the basis of the money, rather than say, 'who gives a fuck about Scotland', then you'd probably have some kind of tangible complaint to share about why the money was undeserved or misspent.

So where this is going, not exactly concealed, is poking at your attitude to redistribution. Basically, on what's presented so far, I don't believe you. I think you're either throwing a principle that you're in favour of under the bus in exchange for a stick with which to beat the EU, when countless others are available for free, or, you have no actual interest in redistribution of funds in the first place, at least outside British borders. I wouldn't like to guess which. I think this not because of you per se but because it's a common trope when it comes to the subject of giving away money - e.g. 'charity starts at home' as a hapless cover for no charity at all.

As you say, there are 'countless sticks with which to beat the EU with' but the one that annoys me most is the perception that the EU actually funds projects within the U.K. ...it doesn't... it only redistributes money that we have paid into the EU budget.
It does not provide extra funding, it give us a proportion of the money we have already paid, back to the UK but only into projects that the EU decides are 'worthy'
The NHS bus was, as most would agree, a clumsy attempt to highlight this point.
I would be more than happy to see a UK based organisation deciding on the 'redistribution' of the nations wealth.
Other, than a Tory govt that is

 

[coley]

That's what you hope, that nurses and doctors from other countries (often less prosperous) leave the (often understaffed) health services of those countries and work in the NHS?

Or mebbes leaving the EU will open up the possibility of us dipping into the pockets of the corporations (currently running the U.K., including the NHS) who are currently exploiting migrants? Not just in the UK,but worldwide?

 

[coley]

Lovely, exploitation of workers and less prosperous countries as 'freedom of movement'.

Oops, did you see the 'principles' of the EU in a more compassionate light?

 

[coley]

When I was in hospital recently, most of the staff came from abroad.

The fuckwitted idea of doing away with bursaries for student nurses, and making them pay tuition fees, will deter a lot of people from taking up nursing.

Requiring nurses to take a 'degree' is the 'fuckwitted' bit same as 'fast tracking' graduates into senior police posts.
And now requiring a degree to apply for job as a a copper?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Requiring nurses to take a 'degree' is the 'fuckwitted' bit same as 'fast tracking' graduates into senior police posts.
And now requiring a degree to apply for job as a a copper?

I am a qualified nurse, and completely agree that it should not be a degree course. Our training comprised time on the wards, and time in the school of nursing. Most of the time was spent on the wards. That gives you the ability to spot immediately, the patient who is starting to deteriorate.

My mate Gary, who is still working as a nurse for the army, was walking along behind a 'degree' nurse when a patient asked her for a urine bottle. The 'degree' replied 'I'll get someone else, I didn't go to university to hand out urine bottles'. Gary's comment to her got her to fetch the urine bottle, and him an interview with the boss re 'tone and manner'.

 

[ddraig]

As you say, there are 'countless sticks with which to beat the EU with' but the one that annoys me most is the perception that the EU actually funds projects within the U.K. ...it doesn't... it only redistributes money that we have paid into the EU budget.
It does not provide extra funding, it give us a proportion of the money we have already paid, back to the UK but only into projects that the EU decides are 'worthy'
The NHS bus was, as most would agree, a clumsy attempt to highlight this point.
I would be more than happy to see a UK based organisation deciding on the 'redistribution' of the nations wealth.
Other, than a Tory govt that is

what part of "net beneficiary" do you not understand?

 

[Sasaferrato]

what part of "net beneficiary" do you not understand?

We are not 'net beneficiaries' of the EU, we pay circa £10Bn a year more than the EU 'spends' in the UK. I am a 'Remain' voter just the same.

 

[DotCommunist]

according to a man in the newspaper this is as bad as the time we invaded iraq with no plan of what to do after saddam has toppled. lol.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Reading something about the fish bonanza that awaits after we leave, as we have about 80% of the European mature herring in our waters at present- fishermen rubbing their hands with glee at the riches awaiting once caps and quotas are ripped up. Short memories I fear- there was a 6/7 year moratorium on herring in the late 70s that rescued the stocks.

 

[Poi E]

according to a man in the newspaper this is as bad as the time we invaded iraq with no plan of what to do after saddam has toppled. lol.

Football Lads are the Shia militia, I guess.

 

[Sasaferrato]

according to a man in the newspaper this is as bad as the time we invaded iraq with no plan of what to do after saddam has toppled. lol.

Not quite, but there do seem to be things that are only now being considered.

 

[Poi E]

Scottish independence has been considered for a long time

 

[Sasaferrato]

Reading something about the fish bonanza that awaits after we leave, as we have about 80% of the European mature herring in our waters at present- fishermen rubbing their hands with glee at the riches awaiting once caps and quotas are ripped up. Short memories I fear- there was a 6/7 year moratorium on herring in the late 70s that rescued the stocks.

Yep, there have to be quotas or the greedy bastards will fish them to near extinction again.

I lived in Fort William at the time of the white fish boom. There was a 20 ton lorry coming out of Mallaig every twenty minutes, day and night. If you have been to Mallaig, you will see a lot of big houses, just as you come into the town, they were all built at that time. There isn't a single boat fishing out of there now.

 

[kabbes]

Yep, there have to be quotas or the greedy bastards will fish them to near extinction again.

I lived in Fort William at the time of the white fish boom. There was a 20 ton lorry coming out of Mallaig every twenty minutes, day and night. If you have been to Mallaig, you will see a lot of big houses, just as you come into the town, they were all built at that time. There isn't a single boat fishing out of there now.

I was on a boat out fishing off Mallaig this very summer

 

[Silas Loom]

I was on a boat out fishing off Mallaig this very summer
View attachment 121883

I'd always pictured you as clean shaven and bipedal. But that's the Internet for you.

 

[kabbes]

I'd always pictured you as clean shaven and bipedal. But that's the Internet for you.

That’s Ben, who sadly died last month. But he had a long and happy life first. He loved that holiday to the highlands.

 

[Silas Loom]

Oh, commiserations. It's the long and happy life that counts. Hope you're bearing up, and getting to the point where you can consider a new puppy.

 

[Winot]

Possible pragmatic fix reported here - UK stays in airline safety body post-Brexit which necessitates some 'indirect' ECJ jurisdiction.

Govt to stay in EU air safety body in blurring of Brexit red line

 

[Poi E]

the petits four will all be fudge from here on in.

 

[DexterTCN]

Faisal Islam‏Verified account @faisalislam
Wow. Tusk announces in Dublin that Irish Government gets formal veto over Brexit sufficient progress - he will consult with Varadkar to sign off any move to next phase

 

[phillm]

I am a qualified nurse, and completely agree that it should not be a degree course. Our training comprised time on the wards, and time in the school of nursing. Most of the time was spent on the wards. That gives you the ability to spot immediately, the patient who is starting to deteriorate.

My mate Gary, who is still working as a nurse for the army, was walking along behind a 'degree' nurse when a patient asked her for a urine bottle. The 'degree' replied 'I'll get someone else, I didn't go to university to hand out urine bottles'. Gary's comment to her got her to fetch the urine bottle, and him an interview with the boss re 'tone and manner'.

Sounds like a case of taking the piss by not taking the piss.

 

[DexterTCN]

Tusk:-

“We agreed today that before proposing guidelines on transition and future relations I will consult the Taoiseach on [whether or not] the UK offer is sufficient for the Irish Government.

“Let me say very clearly if the UK offer is unacceptable for Ireland it will be unacceptable for the EU,” he said.

 

[Winot]

^ is anyone surprised by this?

 

[Smangus]

^ is anyone surprised by this?

Only Rees Moggy probably. Bet he's astounded at their audacity

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Only Rees Moggy probably. Bet he's astounded at their audacity

He won’t be though, he favours telling them all to get fucked. Which is pretty much what we should be doing right now.

 

[Smangus]

He won’t be though, he favours telling them all to get fucked. Which is pretty much what we should be doing right now.

Classic Urban diplomacy in action