Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[sleaterkinney]

Most leave people have disengaged - happy to see what havoc clown liberals like lbj might wrought. We haven't gone away.

Speaking of behalf of most leave people now.

 

[paolo]

I work, for my sins, down the road from Browns in Mayfair.

Brexit love in last month.

Bannon, Farage et al. They all piled in.

The funny thing is, they said they were taking back control, then later realised that most European countries ban foreign political money, and sacked it all off.

Oh. Taking Back Control.

 

[Wolveryeti]

Most leave people have disengaged

Why? Your team won- you should be flooding the airwaves with your plan for a socialist utopia, free from the nasty EU neolibs... don't play into the stereotype of being all piss and wind

 

[redsquirrel]

That's somewhat patronising.
It's simply that quite a lot of us see the EU as imperfect, but the best option at the moment - and this exercise will hopefully make us take more of an active interest in future - especially as it has revealed a massive level of incompetence among the UK political class.
If you really want violent revolution, I believe you can join in for the price of a cheap hiviz ...

As BA said QED.
Don't pretend that you're some opponent of the EU when you've been defending it and neo-liberalism from your first post on this thread. You wanted to "go back to what worked" - increasing inequality, increasing marketisation, increasing technocracy.

It does, but brexit either won't make any difference to it, or it will be an opportunity for capital to muscle in even more.

Like GG you're not interested in class, you've dismissed it for years. And if the UK leaving the EU won't make any difference in the fight between labour and capital then it's irrelevant.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Posted this elsewhere but Brexit is making some people totally lose the plot.

You wouldn't know she made a living from writing would you?

 

[Pickman's model]

You wouldn't know she made a living from writing would you?

Guardian journos make their livings from writing and most of them're as shit at writing as auld jk

 

[Yossarian]

You wouldn't know she made a living from writing would you?

I prefer her earlier work.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Debate here

between Grace Blakeley and Zoe Williams examining the case for a 'lexit' and the case against it from a lw perspective. The essential difference between them seems to be about where democracy might be possible. Blakeley basically doesn't see it as possible above the level of the nation state. Williams does and sees possibilities for reform of the likes of the EU through international alliances. Further she sees it as necessary for reasons of global concern such as climate change and resource management. I suspect that they both think of the other as an idealist. Williams is possibly the more pessimistic. Open up possibilities to challenge the forces of neoliberalism by first fucking up your own economy with those very neoliberals in power doing the fucking up? I don't think so, particularly here in the UK of all places - the source of the main driver of neoliberalism in the EU. I agree with that. Confronted with the immediate bad things that we are already seeing happen it's all very handwavy.

 

[splash]

 

[redsquirrel]

Zoe Williams examining the case for a 'lexit' and the case against it from a lw perspective.

So left wing she want's a progressive alliance with the LibDems and believes that Blair "left a blueprint for social democratic government"

 

[brogdale]

So left wing she want's a progressive alliance with the LibDems and believes that Blair "left a blueprint for social democratic government"

coalition, maybe?

 

[Theisticle]

Peak Bastani

 

[philosophical]

Leaving something means a border (of some kind).
After brexit there is supposed to be a border in a place where an international treaty (and I would say a very significant one) says there isn't supposed to be a border.
Brexit/Lexit, call it what you will, won the vote.
After two and a half years the winners have no solution to the land border connundrum.
Most of the winners say they leave that solution to the politicians.
There is no solution, so the winners want to blame everybody but themselves instead of resolving the mess.
The so called backstop will (if it is voted in) remain forever because an ultimate border solution cannot be found.
The conclusion I come to is that Brexiters and Lexiters have lost even though they think they have won, it will be brexit in name only at best.
The best solution to the border problem was there already, not having a border, but now that Brexiters and Lexiters have voted for one they should in my view say in practical day to day detail how they intend to establish and maintain the land border they voted for.

 

[ska invita]

So left wing she want's a progressive alliance with the LibDems and believes that Blair "left a blueprint for social democratic government"

Backed Owen Frothy Coffee Smith during the coup days
Owen Smith: decent bloke, good politics. But is that enough? | Zoe Williams
And then eventually once Corbyn had finally got control gave a feeble apology
I backed Owen Smith against Jeremy Corbyn. But I regret it now | Zoe Williams

 

[SpackleFrog]

Debate here

between Grace Blakeley and Zoe Williams examining the case for a 'lexit' and the case against it from a lw perspective. The essential difference between them seems to be about where democracy might be possible. Blakeley basically doesn't see it as possible above the level of the nation state. Williams does and sees possibilities for reform of the likes of the EU through international alliances. Further she sees it as necessary for reasons of global concern such as climate change and resource management. I suspect that they both think of the other as an idealist. Williams is possibly the more pessimistic. Open up possibilities to challenge the forces of neoliberalism by first fucking up your own economy with those very neoliberals in power doing the fucking up? I don't think so, particularly here in the UK of all places - the source of the main driver of neoliberalism in the EU. I agree with that. Confronted with the immediate bad things that we are already seeing happen it's all very handwavy.

Williams seemed to mainly be being very rude and interrupting a lot - debate is putting it a bit strong.

 

[Jeremiah18.17]

Peak Bastani

Interesting choice of trading partners you’ve got there Aaron.....
Bastani - proof you can be highly qualified, from a prestigious institution, be “a leader” and still be a damned immoral fool.

 

[Pickman's model]

Interesting choice of trading partners you’ve got there Aaron.....
Bastani - proof you can be highly qualified, from a prestigious institution, be “a leader” and still be a damned immoral fool.

As though generations of auld etonian oxbridge educated mps hadn't demonstrated that already

 

[Jeremiah18.17]

As though generations of auld etonian oxbridge educated mps hadn't demonstrated that already

Well, exactly.
But Bastani and his minions “fully automated luxury communism” looks more like the old “fully enslaved poverty Stalinism” by the day.

 

[A380]

Leaving something means a border (of some kind).
After brexit there is supposed to be a border in a place where an international treaty (and I would say a very significant one) says there isn't supposed to be a border.
Brexit/Lexit, call it what you will, won the vote.
After two and a half years the winners have no solution to the land border connundrum.
Most of the winners say they leave that solution to the politicians.
There is no solution, so the winners want to blame everybody but themselves instead of resolving the mess.
The so called backstop will (if it is voted in) remain forever because an ultimate border solution cannot be found.
The conclusion I come to is that Brexiters and Lexiters have lost even though they think they have won, it will be brexit in name only at best.
The best solution to the border problem was there already, not having a border, but now that Brexiters and Lexiters have voted for one they should in my view say in practical day to day detail how they intend to establish and maintain the land border they voted for.

There is a solution. Leave Northern Ireland ( which voted remain) across the sectarian divide) in the EU and have an internal UK border at Holyhead, Heysham etc.

Simple*....

Spoiler

*Irony

 

[Yossarian]

Biggest worry there would be the risk of the DUP summoning Zombie Ian Paisley.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Biggest worry there would be the risk of the DUP summoning Zombie Ian Paisley.

View attachment 157005

the eurovision song contest has changed a lot since the 80s

 

[SpookyFrank]

Peak Bastani

Brazil super unproblematic right now as well.

 

[teuchter]

My observation during christmas travels outside of the urban75 discussion bubble: no-one's even heard of the term 'lexit' let alone what it might mean.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Project Fear continues apace Met Police chief warns over no-deal Brexit

 

[TopCat]

I'm waiting to hear what the furniture makers guild have to say.

 

[DotCommunist]

last poll of the year saw the explicitly pro remain parties on 10% of the vote (between them) while Lucas thunders on twitter 'Labour, the young will never forgive you!'

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm waiting to hear what the furniture makers guild have to say.

You won't believe the stance the tufty club has taken

 

[Wolveryeti]

Another catastrophic phall-ure of the Brexit vision:
British curry industry ‘dying’ because of Brexit and staff shortages, leading restaurateurs warn

 

[teuchter]

You won't believe the stance the tufty club has taken

Brexit will open up a space for discussion of road safety issues, with disruption to road traffic causing new opportunities for children to cross roads at a grassroots level. The tufty club is currently working on a critical analysis of child/road relations in preparation for making concrete proposals for further dialectic examination of the possible scenarios in which members can organise and meet around common grounds left vacant in post-Brexit Britain.

 

[Pickman's model]

Brexit will open up a space for discussion of road safety issues, with disruption to road traffic causing new opportunities for children to cross roads at a grassroots level. The tufty club is currently working on a critical analysis of child/road relations in preparation for making concrete proposals for further dialectic examination of the possible scenarios in which members can organise and meet around common grounds left vacant in post-Brexit Britain.

Wrong I'm afraid, they're staunch remainers as they're concerned that any brexit could see Brussels imposing driving on the right on the UK whereas atm the UK could veto such a diktat