Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Wookey]

All quotes are by definition selective

You state the obvious, obviously.

To chop a sentence in half, deliberately to change the meaning, and then to challenge me on the newly created meaning, is the game of a knave!

 

[teuchter]

No wonder really, if they're all as smug as you.

It was simply an acknowledgement of the facts - just about everything about me predicts me as 'remain'. Yes, the majority of people I saw over Christmas are also remain. My point about 'Lexit' - unless you want those who already want Brexit to support the Lexit version of its aims, surely those who want to promote the Lexit approach should be targeting Remain voters. If you read urban75 (which in reality is fairly heavy with middle class posters, and Remain posters) then you might get the impression that this Lexit argument is current amongst Remain voters. Even if they reject it, that they are aware of it. But my observation in my christmas corner of the 'real world' is that this simply isn't the case. The idea that there can be a 'left' version of Brexit is barely even considered. Whether that's the fault of remainers not being widely enough read, or the fault of Lexit advocates failing to present a plausible message is up for discussion.

 

[DotCommunist]

Whether that's the fault of remainers not being widely enough read

well the guardian has been running (negative) opinion pieces that discuss left leave for some time now, why just yesterday there was another one. So its literally being discussed on a semi regular basis in the paper written by and for that demographic you describe.

322,000 results on google for 'guardian lexit', going back a couple of years

so, while left leave had no real mainstream coverage the guardian has been publishing arguments against it for two years now.
So I think a fair chunk of the remain vote will have heard the left leave arguments by now, even if only in the rebuttal.

my observation in my christmas corner of the 'real world

Ah. Here it is, you slid from personal observations to talking about 'remainers' in general. You've attempted to go from 'my holidays with my family and friends' into 'all remainers'. tsk tsk.

 

[Yossarian]

The Guardian only has a circulation of 138,000, not sure what the online figures are but I doubt the opinion pieces are reaching all that many people - I've certainly talked to enough people who should know better but think the existence of a Left Leave argument is some kind of weird oxymoron.

 

[danny la rouge]

You state the obvious, obviously.

To chop a sentence in half, deliberately to change the meaning, and then to challenge me on the newly created meaning, is the game of a knave!

You brought up his hair colour.

 

[Pickman's model]

You state the obvious, obviously.

To chop a sentence in half, deliberately to change the meaning, and then to challenge me on the newly created meaning, is the game of a knave!

If you said the words and they were consecutive then you have not a leg to stand on

 

[Borp]

Couldn't even be sure if he's drunk

 

[Pickman's model]

It was simply an acknowledgement of the facts - just about everything about me predicts me as 'remain'. Yes, the majority of people I saw over Christmas are also remain. My point about 'Lexit' - unless you want those who already want Brexit to support the Lexit version of its aims, surely those who want to promote the Lexit approach should be targeting Remain voters. If you read urban75 (which in reality is fairly heavy with middle class posters, and Remain posters) then you might get the impression that this Lexit argument is current amongst Remain voters. Even if they reject it, that they are aware of it. But my observation in my christmas corner of the 'real world' is that this simply isn't the case. The idea that there can be a 'left' version of Brexit is barely even considered. Whether that's the fault of remainers not being widely enough read, or the fault of Lexit advocates failing to present a plausible message is up for discussion.

Could you summarise your dismal post pls

 

[teuchter]

Ah. Here it is, you slid from personal observations to talking about 'remainers' in general. You've attempted to go from 'my holidays with my family and friends' into 'all remainers'. tsk tsk.

I don't think so. I've not claimed that those I speak to represent 'all remainers'.

 

[DotCommunist]

The Guardian only has a circulation of 138,000, not sure what the online figures are but I doubt the opinion pieces are reaching all that many people - I've certainly talked to enough people who should know better but think the existence of a Left Leave argument is some kind of weird oxymoron.

same as, the left leave argument has not been widely heard but I did not say it had. The rebuttals haven't solely been confined to guardian opinion pieces, plenty in the Indy (when did that go to shit?) and similar publications. I'd be interested to see how much penetration the arguments have had, perhaps someone has done surveys. I simply think its known better than tuechters limited sample size shows.

 

[Yossarian]

View attachment 157106



Couldn't even be sure if he's drunk

Not sure why he's even calling for a second referendum when he's basically saying: "It's too late to change your minds, Brexiters, you are now forever tainted in the eyes of Baron Adonis."

 

[DotCommunist]

Adonis has been tweeting his wank from the ski slopes this christmas.

 

[Jeremiah18.17]

The chief problem with arguing round the houses over whether Lexit or Left “Remain & Reform” are better is the same for either position - as it currently stands both are highly unlikely.......

(Considering balance of forces, divided left and Parliamentary arithmetic) It is, atm, afaics, RW disaster capitalist xenophobic Leave v. Neoliberal austerity “fortress Europe” Remain....

(With a fair chance of an outcome that combines the worst of both worlds)

 

[SpackleFrog]

You're quoting me partially. Or should I say selectively?!

Ginger hair on it's own is neither here nor there, I'm not a racist.

You're not a racist because you only hate ginger people with blue ties...?

the game of a knave!

Who the eff are you, the Mayor of Casterbridge?

 

[andysays]

You're not a racist because you only hate ginger people with blue ties...?

His dislike is clearly aesthetic, not racist...

 

[two sheds]

If you said the words and they were consecutive then you have not a leg to stand on

First gingerism, now mocking one-legged people

 

[Pickman's model]

First gingerism, now mocking one-legged people

By no means. One-legged people do have a leg to stand on

 

[redsquirrel]

The Guardian only has a circulation of 138,000, not sure what the online figures are but I doubt the opinion pieces are reaching all that many people - I've certainly talked to enough people who should know better but think the existence of a Left Leave argument is some kind of weird oxymoron.

But DC is correct in that it's the house paper for the liberal left. The fact that they have so many (bad) pieces attacking the left wing arguments for Leave shows that such arguments do exist.

EDIT: And is a recognition of the fact that as a movement British socialism has been hostile to the EU since the start.

 

[ska invita]

Just out of interest - Sun now the most visited newspaper website in the UK supposedly.

The Sun overtakes Mail Online to become UK’s biggest online newsbrand, latest Comscore data shows - Press Gazette

UK news website traffic for April 2018:

Title /// Total monthly unique visitors (in millions) /// % change month-on-month
Sun 30.2 2.7
Mail 29.6 -0.7
Guardian 23.9 0.8
ESI 23.9 2.6
Telegraph 21.3 -4.9
Mirror 15.9 -12.2
Express 12.7 2.4
Star 6.6 1.5
Times 4.2 -4.5

*guardian has a big US and OZ readership

 

[Wookey]

You brought up his hair colour.

Yes, danny la rouge - I did bring up his hair colour, but then I also (within the self-same sentence, so it wasn't hard to spot) juxtaposed that with his BLUE SUIT. That BLUE SUIT is an essential ingredient in that sentence pie, and I'll tell you for why heartface.

Red and blue are commonly considered to clash in terms of their place on the colour wheel, something some people instinctively know, and other more heterosexual people need to be taught.

So it's a comment on his perceived colour blindness you see, which I was using to perniciously and quite unreasonably undermine his position as a major salesperson of interior colour schemes to the nation.

But also, and this bit is the clever bit, AT ONE AND THE SAME TIME as casting aspersions on his entire suite of abilities using disability as a cruel and judgemental prism, I concomitantly undermine his simplistic and biased views on Brexit.

Badooom!

So leave the ginger hair alone now, it's a red herring love.

 

[two sheds]

By no means. One-legged people do have a leg to stand on

That's actually worse. Was at the local hospital yesterday, bloke (I presumed diabetic) with his lower legs amputated. Not sure he'd share the joke

 

[danny la rouge]

Red and blue are commonly considered to clash in terms of their place on the colour wheel,

“Red” hair isn’t red in that sense though. I’ve worn blue all my life without incident.

 

[Santino]

“Red” hair isn’t red in that sense though. I’ve worn blue all my life without incident.

Not gay enough, apparently.

 

[pesh]

this bit is the clever bit

no. there was no clever bit.

 

[Badgers]

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

In Lambeth EU was not the issue. Housing , gentrification and cost of living are.

So middle class Scots with professional jobs are the big problem in Lambeth? Who knew? What to do about it?

 

[pocketscience]

Im from teuchter area in London. I don't have middle class job. Nearly all of the people I know - they do working class jobs , some are Council tenants are Remain. I was Remain as well.

In Lambeth EU was not the issue. Housing , gentrification and cost of living are. As are Tory austerity cuts to Councils hitting services.

if it's class credentials you want, I was born and raised on council estates in your eastern neigbouring SE London borough and there's no other consequence of brexit I'd more enjoy than to see the banking sector fuck off to Frankfurt, for exactly the reasons you mention.

Can you see the EU improving any of those things if we remain? Convince me

 

[pocketscience]

But DC is correct in that it's the house paper for the liberal left. The fact that they have so many (bad) pieces attacking the left wing arguments for Leave shows that such arguments do exist.

EDIT: And is a recognition of the fact that as a movement British socialism has been hostile to the EU since the start.

This was the last article of its kind (2013). Maybe the left arguement (at least in the graun) died with Bob (RIP):
Exit Europe from the left | Bob Crow

 

[andysays]

“Red” hair isn’t red in that sense though. I’ve worn blue all my life without incident.

*makes note never to listen to danny la rouge's opinion on anything ever again*

 

[Badgers]