Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[planetgeli]

Election promises not being fulfilled comes pretty low down on the dishonesty surprise scale.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That’s true but it ignores the fact that the 2017 election was then fought on the basis of political manifestos that were quit explicit about the intention to perform a full Brexit (eg the Labour manifesto promised to retain the “benefits of the single market and the customs union” but without being a member of either whilst the Tories also made it clear that they intended to exit the customs union.). So it’s not just about the 2016 referendum — it’s also about fulfilling explicit election promises.

Yeah well that didn't work out so well, did it? If When this deal is voted down, that will be a sure sign of deadlock in parliament. It should be the trigger of an immediate dissolution of parliament and a new general election. Minority govts dependent on the support of fringe nutters to prop them up rarely last long, and for good reason. This isn't unprecedented by any means. The nonsense fixed-term act was easily finessed last year when there was no need for an election. Now there really is a concrete need for an election.

 

[Supine]

Meanwhile pantomimes across the country are being cancelled, because despite how much they spend on stars & production, they don't feel they can compete with what's coming out of parliament, free of charge.

Oh no they're not

 

[Wolveryeti]

That’s true but it ignores the fact that the 2017 election was then fought on the basis of political manifestos that were quit explicit about the intention to perform a full Brexit (eg the Labour manifesto promised to retain the “benefits of the single market and the customs union” but without being a member of either

Can you point to the bit of the manifesto where it explicitly states that the plan is to exit the SM and CU?

 

[Wookey]

Can you summarise?

Yeah course! The long and short of it is, you're a bit of a cunt.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Oh no they're not

Oh yes they are.

 

[butchersapron]

Here they come.

 

[butchersapron]

Riding the people's tiger

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah course! The long and short of it is, you're a bit of a cunt.

Perhaps next time you think of doing a c&p odyssey you could think twice, read the FAQ and not bother, especially as you don't think any points in your great screed actually worth making

 

[William of Walworth]

I didn't think that that overlengthy piece that Wookey cut and pasted was by Ian Jack!!

(His article, at the top, looks from a quick skim as if it'll be a lot better -- his Saturday Guardian articles are almost always worth reading IMO/IME -- I'm saving reading it til my trad paper-reading Saturday time --in the pub!! But with coffee not beer, I'm in the middle of a ten-day pre-Xmas break from alcohol

 

[Santino]

I didn't think that overlengthy piece that Wookey cut and pasted was by Ian Jack!!

(His article, at the top, looks from a quick skim as if it'll be a lot better -- his Saturday Guardian articles are almost always worth reading IMO/IME -- I'm saving reading it til my trad paper-reading Saturday time --in the pub!! But with coffee not beer, I'm in the middle of a ten-day pre-Xmas break from alcohol )

Why don't you read it before you recommend it?

 

[William of Walworth]

Santino : Why not try being nicer and more friendly?

I recommended it because I know from experience that Ian Jack's articles are nearly always worth reading** -- the suggestion was from knowledge therefore. And I did skim it briefly. People don't have to agree anyway

**He did a brilliant one at the beginning of the year about India, just before I went there ...

 

[Baronage-Phase]

100 years ago today, Ireland held an election. No ordinary election. This was to be the first one where women could vote. The first one where a woman was elected to parliament...(Countess Markievicz) The first one where 73 Sinn Fein candidates were elected...and they never took their seats in Westminster either. Many of those elected were in prisons in the UK at that time. The clear message sent by that Irish electorate was overwhelmingly to break away from the UK. It was a resounding defeat for Home Rule and a massive finger to Westminster. The separatists had their mandate. Unfortunately, Labour had decided not to contest the election so as not to weaken that position. Maybe things would have been different if they had run....who knows.

The reason I'm bringing this up is that the talk on that election night, 100 years ago, turned towards the predominantly Unionist vote in the north east of Ireland and how this very obvious split could lead to a border and how that border might come about...And of course the inevitable and unsettling thought was dawning that a civil war could be imminent. As it turned out...It was this border issue that directly caused the Civil War here.

Roll on 100 years later. And there is talk of a border in Ireland on the table once again only this time Ireland is in a position of relative peace. But that border has never been good for Ireland or indeed NI. Anyone looking at things clearly knows that is the truth.
Make no mistake. A border will be a massive challenge. It may revive divisions. It could lead to the unthinkable. Or maybe people will be so disinterested that it wont matter. ... yeah right.. no that won't be the case.

The 2016 Brexit vote was based on lies.
So when your parliament lies to you and a 52% majority vote is reached based on those lies...And your parliament spins stories about in a deliberate obfuscation then maybe it's time for the UK to realise that your parliament is a dead loss. One thing is certain. A border here will magnify the position of Sinn Fein here and in NI. They're already stronger in NI. They only have one candidate less than the DUP in the NIA. And there will come a stage where NI will be increasingly less unionist. When that happens, NI will want out of the UK and Westminster better be ready for that ..and deal with their position by accepting that desire and mandate to leave the UK... just as the UK now wants to leave the EU.

Interesting times. I hope I get to see all of this take place.

 

[Cloo]

I'm seriously thinking that if they start heading for No Deal we ought to have some damn proper protest, like a national walkout. No Deal would just be fucking suicide.

 

[T & P]

I reckon the Xmas retail figures are going to be absolutely dismal. Even central London seems quiet for this time of the year.

 

[DexterTCN]

I'm seriously thinking that if they start heading for No Deal we ought to have some damn proper protest, like a national walkout. No Deal would just be fucking suicide.

I think they don't care.

Like they believe in some magic carpet of britishness or something.

 

[Wookey]

Perhaps next time you think of doing a c&p odyssey you could think twice, read the FAQ and not bother, especially as you don't think any points in your great screed actually worth making

Apologies. My point was it was a BLT comment from presumably a punter rather than a paid commentator, the implicit bit being that it kinda belies the trope that Brexit political discourse has been trite and one-dimensional.

Also dint realise how long it was.

 

[Gerry1time]

I think they don't care.

Like they believe in some magic carpet of britishness or something.

They massively care, they have a lot riding on it. In the short term, no deal will make a small number of people a lot of money. In the medium and longer term, the far right tories know that it's the only way they can finally realise their dream of a tiny state, low tax, unfettered free market Britain with almost complete privatisation and minimal state intervention. Europe kept getting in the way of that, and would do still unless we have no deal.

It's why the Internet is currently full of 'pro-brexit' astroturfers, presumably being funded from somewhere. Both this forum with its sudden 'new members' posting about brexit, and other ones I watch. Conservative Home is the most amusing example of it, given that the regular posters there still seem completely oblivious to the sometimes blatant astroturfing by people posting from a script.

There's money still being invested in the brexit project, because people with money are still keen to see the benefits it will bring them.

 

[strung out]

Apologies. My point was it was a BLT comment

Bacon, lettuce and tomato?

 

[Wookey]

Bacon, lettuce and tomato?

I have a lumbar puncture headache, I really should not be posting at all.

 

[paolo]

There's money still being invested in the brexit project, because people with money are still keen to see the benefits it will bring them.

In Mayfair, Browns not so long back, Steve Bannon, Farage et al got together with the idea of pumping cash into the populist anti EU movements.

In their stupidity, having gathered with their big financing plan, they shortly learnt it's illegal, or very very limited, in most (not all) of their targeted European countries, to fund from outside.

Expensive dinner of the arrogant ignorant.

 

[redsquirrel]

.... dream of a tiny state, low tax, unfettered free market Britain with almost complete privatisation and minimal state intervention. Europe kept getting in the way of that, and would do still unless we have no deal.

The EU has been supporting the privatisation and marketisation of public services for decades. What the fuck do you think happened in Greece, Ireland, Portugal, etc

If you're going to argue for Remaining ok, but this nonsense of the white knight EU is not just wrong but revolting when people are dying as a result of policies enacted by the EU.

 

[paolo]

The EU has been supporting the privatisation and marketisation of public services for decades.

Worth remembering that, for rail, the UK has gone far far beyond any idea that the EU had about privatisation, for decades.

Even now the EU is only vaguely near "catching up" with the UK on that one.

 

[redsquirrel]

No the idea for both is the same. This isn't nation states vs the EU, but nation states working hand in glove with the EU.

 

[DJWrongspeed]

There is no need to panic or worry, Tim, nice but Dim is going on tour to explain eveverthings gonna be alright
https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/wetherspoons-boss-tim-martin-pub-tour-no-deal-brexit/

I saw Tim Martin on a Ch4 news discussion panel. He's very passionate about this issue, even adorning his pubs with propaganda, but you have stop for a moment.
1) How is his business going to be affected by Brexit , particularly staff recruitment?
2) Why is he so driven by this issue when he has built up huge business while the Uk has been a member of the EU?
3) He claims food prices will drop out of the EU, how could they be any cheaper in Wetherspoons anyway?

 

[Mr Moose]

I reckon the Xmas retail figures are going to be absolutely dismal. Even central London seems quiet for this time of the year.

You say that, but I’m seriously contemplating buying a new phone, so I think it’s a little early to assume the wheels have come off.

 

[Mr Moose]

I saw Tim Martin on a Ch4 news discussion panel. He's very passionate about this issue, even adorning his pubs with propaganda, but you have stop for a moment.
1) How is his business going to be affected by Brexit , particularly staff recruitment?
2) Why is he so driven by this issue when he has built up huge business while the Uk has been a member of the EU?
3) He claims food prices will drop out of the EU, how could they be any cheaper in Wetherspoons anyway?

He’s an utter wanker probably covers it.

 

[Yossarian]

I saw Tim Martin on a Ch4 news discussion panel. He's very passionate about this issue, even adorning his pubs with propaganda, but you have stop for a moment.
1) How is his business going to be affected by Brexit , particularly staff recruitment?
2) Why is he so driven by this issue when he has built up huge business while the Uk has been a member of the EU?
3) He claims food prices will drop out of the EU, how could they be any cheaper in Wetherspoons anyway?

1) He would probably like to staff all his pubs with backpackers from Australia, South Africa, and New Zealand
2) He's a wanker who cares more about the colour of his passport than the declining living conditions of his staff and customers
3) Approximately 80% of the meat served in his restaurants is already roadkill from South Asia

 

[splash]

I'm seriously thinking that if they start heading for No Deal we ought to have some damn proper protest, like a national walkout. No Deal would just be fucking suicide.

No Deal would be Bangladesh status. Matt Frei speaks to former Director-General of WTO

 

[redsquirrel]

Great. More shit from LibDem wankers.

Wouldn't want to do anything about lovely trade. Might infer with implementing tuition fees, the bedroom tax, attacks on social security and public services.

Like Blair's intervention yesterday the above is the best support the Leave campaign can get.