Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[SpookyFrank]

I'm glad you picked up on that, and I completely agree with what you say. my comment was in context and probably only Kaka Tim got it. I was reflecting his own bully for you moment up thread, where he couldn't help himself by ridiculing my outlook on life despite being told about the precarious financial situation me and my family are in. It was a cunts trick and nobody pulled him up on it then... no respect. Back at him.

You'll forgive us if we didn't get your coded reference to a post 500 pages back.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Bully for you. EU funded by any chance?

no. but so what if it was? there a lots of EU

I'm glad you picked up on that, and I completely agree with what you say. my comment was in context and probably only Kaka Tim got it. I was reflecting his own bully for you moment up thread, where he couldn't help himself by ridiculing my outlook on life despite being told about the precarious financial situation me and my family are in. It was a cunts trick and nobody pulled him up on it then... no respect. Back at him.

i dont remember what led to that comment - and i'll fess up that is comes across a bit snide - sorry. up until pretty recently i was in a similar situation - and many of my mates and most of the people i work with are either clinging on or going under.

 

[co-op]

Do we?
What evidence of that would Yanis be able to see?

Relative to Greece we do, surely that's clear? What's equivalent of the dangers of the eastern Med now for the UK? What threats do we face?

 

[ska invita]

This thread like no other really shows the divide.
You can feel the ardent remainers frothing at the prospect that this threat to thier privileges could be collapsing, that the restoration of the stability and growth of thier privilged status quo is within grasp. They're going for the kill.
While the few of us that have the bottle, or better said the misfortune in life - through permanently peering into the financial abyss, realise that that brexit poses a lifetime opportunity to front the old UK elites, the core of capital no less, to a proverbial one-on-one ''outside in the carpark" are being left exposed.
Sure, that fight still needs to be settled, but what a bunch of worthless shitcunts some are, doing the elites dirty work for them from within our ranks, spreadibg the neoliberal fear of 'negative growth', 'drops in house prices', '''what will the city think?'...
Scared that mummy and daddy's wealth will be wiped out and all that inheritance turn to shit?
Lexit here nor there, the rise of corbyn on the back of brexit wasnt just a coincidence and coversely, still banging on about remain 2 years down the line is nothing short of a knife in the back of socialism.

Out of interest, are you feeling as angry at Labour for blocking Brexit? (In particular by not voting for the transition deal)

 

[co-op]

up until pretty recently i was in a similar situation - and many of my mates and most of the people i work with are either clinging on or going under.

I know I'm late to this conversation but that's been the case for at least half of the people I know for the past 10 years. And even when you're up, you know it's just "for now", there's no long term security. How's the EU helped us get out of that trap?

 

[Teaboy]

and of course - *of course* - the uk government had nothing whatsoever to do with that, they just happened to be at the big table where decisions were made, purely by chance, stood idly by etc.


all the fault of the eu, nothing to do with auld blighty, right.

Its an interesting question because at the time it was very much portrayed as being a Eurozone issue rather than an EU one. Whilst British governments have clearly had a lot of input into the original mess Greece found itself into I don't know how much involvement there was in the bailout conditions. I remember Osborn was not at the table for those. That being said there are always fingers in pies.

 

[brogdale]

Relative to Greece we do, surely that's clear? What's equivalent of the dangers of the eastern Med now for the UK? What threats do we face?

I'm yet to be convinced that 'we' have any option to leave the EU.

 

[Kaka Tim]

I know I'm late to this conversation but that's been the case for at least half of the people I know for the past 10 years. And even when you're up, you know it's just "for now", there's no long term security. How's the EU helped us get out of that trap?

it hasn't - but its not primarily down to the EU - the malasie is far more deep rooted and structural than that - and primarily the result of deliberate uk gov policy and how its exacerbated rather then ameliorated the impact of wider global forces. The question is weather leaving the EU makes the situation even worse

 

[pocketscience]

no. but so what if it was? there a lots of EU


i dont remember what led to that comment - and i'll fess up that is comes across a bit snide - sorry. up until pretty recently i was in a similar situation - and many of my mates and most of the people i work with are either clinging on or going under.

Fair enough. Apology accepted, but tbf it doesn't really bother me (remember, I try to stay positive) but it did make me more aware of the attitudes of remainers whenever the discussion veers towards the opportunities opening up to the left via brexit. A lot of snide stuff coming out of the remainer camp in those particular discussions - snuffing out opinions with ridicule - (and you're nowhere near the worst) - it needs challenging.

 

[flypanam]

A bit of an emotive headline but just proof postive (as if we didn't already know) what a fucking evil shit Priti Patel is

Tory MP suggests using threat of 'no-deal' food shortages in Ireland to drop the backstop

Not much to add to the debate here regarding MPs but fucking hell the lack of awreness of Ireland and it's history from leaders of the Tories is to be expected but food shortages as a bargining chip, thats fucking emotive and stupid.

 

[Pickman's model]

Its an interesting question because at the time it was very much portrayed as being a Eurozone issue rather than an EU one. Whilst British governments have clearly had a lot of input into the original mess Greece found itself into I don't know how much involvement there was in the bailout conditions. I remember Osborn was not at the table for those. That being said there are always fingers in pies.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...502291/54284_EU_Series_No1_Web_Accessible.pdf
so they could express a view about it even if they didn't have a vote on it

 

[co-op]

Its an interesting question because at the time it was very much portrayed as being a Eurozone issue rather than an EU one. Whilst British governments have clearly had a lot of input into the original mess Greece found itself into I don't know how much involvement there was in the bailout conditions. I remember Osborn was not at the table for those. That being said there are always fingers in pies.

The Greek govt debt crisis was 100% a creation of the eurozone. It was turned into a disaster for the Greek people by the decision of the German and French govts to pay off all their own bank's loans to the Greek govt out of "taxpayers money" in France and Germany and then go after the Greek govt for almost full repayment despite the fact that it was bankrupt (and still is in reality). The UK wasn't part of the eurozone and the UK negotiated an explicit exemption from paying into the bankers bail out fund.

None of that was done out of anything except self-interest of course but the destruction of Greece is not something you can meaningfully lay at the UK govt's feet*.

ETA *in fact, with stunning hypocrisy, I have seen tory newspapers and tory brexiteer MPs denouncing "EU-imposed sado-austerity" in Greece.

 

[ska invita]

rise in racism? brexit

That bit is true. It was an openly racist and xenophobic campaign

 

[Pickman's model]

A bit of an emotive headline but just proof postive (as if we didn't already know) what a fucking evil shit Priti Patel is

Tory MP suggests using threat of 'no-deal' food shortages in Ireland to drop the backstop

Not much to add to the debate here regarding MPs but fucking hell the lack of awreness of Ireland and it's history from leaders of the Tories is to be expected but food shortages as a bargining chip, thats fucking emotive and stupid.

even for a tory that's shit

 

[not-bono-ever]

She is fuckibg disgusting- as if that wasn’t already evident

The patronising attitude towards Ireland is DNA coded in Tory filth- they cannot help themselves

 

[Kaka Tim]

A bit of an emotive headline but just proof postive (as if we didn't already know) what a fucking evil shit Priti Patel is

Tory MP suggests using threat of 'no-deal' food shortages in Ireland to drop the backstop

Not much to add to the debate here regarding MPs but fucking hell the lack of awreness of Ireland and it's history from leaders of the Tories is to be expected but food shortages as a bargining chip, thats fucking emotive and stupid.

vile. maybe she picked up a few tips from her holiday jaunt to israel on how to deal with formerly occupied territories who wont toe the line.

 

[sunnysidedown]

Priti Vacant

 

[ManchesterBeth]

That bit is true. It was an openly racist and xenophobic campaign

Not really. resurgance of racism has been germinating in british society for years.

It might be a good pat on the back for white liberals, can reassure themselves that we live in a happy tolerant society and all but we have known that has been rarely the case. the limits to antiracism in this country are democratic communalist representation. and representation is not an emancipatory politics.

 

[8ball]

Not really. resurgance of racism has been germinating in british society for years.

I'm not sure its a resurgence so much as an unmasking.

 

[ska invita]

Out of interest, are you feeling as angry at Labour for blocking Brexit? (In particular by not voting for the transition deal)

pocketscience ? Anyone?
Posters on here arent blocking Brexit: Labour, LibDem and SNP MPs are.

Not really. resurgance of racism has been germinating in british society for years.
It might be a good pat on the back for white liberals, can reassure themselves that we live in a happy tolerant society and all but we have known that has been rarely the case. the limits to antiracism in this country are democratic communalist representation. and representation is not an emancipatory politics.

yes it has been germinating for years, and brexit gave it the legitimacy to come more out in the open. Stats show that and my own eyes and experiences show that. I dont care what white liberal back patters think - facts is facts.

 

[Pickman's model]

pocketscience ? Anyone?
Posters on here arent blocking Brexit: Labour, LibDem and SNP MPs are.

if truth be told it's may who has played the greatest role in blocking brexit.

 

[Pickman's model]

yes it has been germinating for years, and brexit gave it the legitimacy to come more out in the open. Stats show that and my own eyes and experiences show that. I dont care what white liberal back patters think - facts is facts.

didn't think it ever really went away

 

[ska invita]

didn't think it ever really went away

of course not.
anyhow we've done this bit several times now

 

[ska invita]

if truth be told it's may who has played the greatest role in blocking brexit.

Not at this point though

 

[ManchesterBeth]

yes it has been germinating for years, and brexit gave it the legitimacy to come more out in the open. Stats show that and my own eyes and experiences show that. I dont care what white liberal back patters think - facts is facts.

What makes you think labour hasn't been legitimising it either and not just labour leavers.

I mean if anyone was arguing that all leavers are the noble salt of the earth then they are fucking cretins to begin with. noone is arguing that on this forum. some people are arguing for 'the people' though. blech.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not at this point though

take a look at it.

she refuses to think of remaining in the single market. she refuses to join efta. she calls a wholly unnecessary election which loses her the tory majority. she faffs about getting davis to negotiate away while she prepares something completely different behind the scenes, leading to his resignation. she runs with this bollocks plan and refuses to countenance any alternative. she's run the clock down so the only alternatives are no deal or no brexit. i'd say she's done a fantastic job of blocking brexit.

 

[sunnysidedown]

yes it has been germinating for years, and brexit gave it the legitimacy to come more out in the open. Stats show that and my own eyes and experiences show that. I dont care what white liberal back patters think - facts is facts.

What do you think may have been contributing to the germination of xenophobia in the UK over the (insert number of) years?

 

[likesfish]

A bit of an emotive headline but just proof postive (as if we didn't already know) what a fucking evil shit Priti Patel is

Tory MP suggests using threat of 'no-deal' food shortages in Ireland to drop the backstop

Not much to add to the debate here regarding MPs but fucking hell the lack of awreness of Ireland and it's history from leaders of the Tories is to be expected but food shortages as a bargining chip, thats fucking emotive and stupid.

Jesus fuck I can't actually belive anyone would be that stupid she really should be publicly shamed for that.

 

[Wilf]

grauniad have been running 'motorways blocked with lorries, unburied dead, planes chartered for medicines' stories.

 

[brogdale]

In what seventh circle of political hell does Kinnock jnr yield the answer.