Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[cupid_stunt]

And no one ever gets refused it based on some nonsense? Tell that to the Windrush folks.

The Windrush situation was a fucking disgrace, but the main problem was not being able to provide documents to prove their rights to stay here. It's a little easier for EU folks to prove they have been here for 5 years, not least because of access to computer records to prove their case.

 

[belboid]

The Windrush situation was a fucking disgrace, but the main problem was not being able to provide documents to prove their rights to stay here. It's a little easier for EU folks to prove they have been here for 5 years, not least because of access to computer records to prove their case.

Not really. Computer records wont necesarily prove continued residence, especially as EU citizens travel without visas.

 

[cupid_stunt]

tbh its just a meaningless isolated tweet. Is she actually from an EU country? Whats her criminal record background etc? Standing alone its just plain odd.

That was my thought after my first reply, they may not even be a EU citizen, in which case it's nonsense to post it on this thread.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Not really. Computer records wont necesarily prove continued residence, especially as EU citizens travel without visas.

There will be records of employment, bank records, HMRC and/or benefit records.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The Windrush situation was a fucking disgrace, but the main problem was not being able to provide documents to prove their rights to stay here. It's a little easier for EU folks to prove they have been here for 5 years, not least because of access to computer records to prove their case.

I don't agree with you about the main problem. The main problem was a home office, run by May, aggressively seeking to fulfill quotas for deportations so going for anyone they could get to do so, regardless of the disgusting injustice they were perpetrating and the lives they were ruining. That kind of thing can very easily happen again. The precise mechanism they use to go after people may change, but the central main problem will be the same. last time it was paper records that went missing. Next time it could be digital records that go missing.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I don't agree with you about the main problem. The main problem was a home office, run by May, aggressively seeking to fulfill quotas for deportations so going for anyone they could get to do so, regardless of the disgusting injustice they were perpetrating and the lives they were ruining. That kind of thing can very easily happen again. The precise mechanism they use to go after people may change, but the central main problem will be the same. last time it was paper records that went missing. Next time it could be digital records that go missing.

OK, I agree, the main problem was the H.O., followed by lack of ability to provide documents from decades ago.

 

[Pickman's model]

There will be records of employment, bank records, HMRC and/or benefit records.

Right. Let's hope they don't go the way of the censuses that are gone or the school records that have been destroyed or the business records chucked in skips when they close.

 

[belboid]

There will be records of employment, bank records, HMRC and/or benefit records.

Christ, you're naive.

 

[bemused]

Rumour has it that numbers briefly swelled to four.

I laughed my balls off listening to James O'Brien on LBC when he went to a field report

JB: I hear there at least four people
FR: James, I'm here at the picket and the numbers have swelled to three people

 

[Pickman's model]

Well that's nonsense, EU citizens that have been here 5 or more years have the right to UK citizenship.

Yeh right. Like the government never pisses on people's rights

 

[killer b]

All gone a bit quiet on the whole 48 letters front.

I wonder if, in fact, they just don't have the fucking numbers and the excitement last night / this morning was all just political correspondents being duped (again) by ERG members?

 

[cupid_stunt]

Christ, you're naive.

No, speaking from the knowledge of the experiences of people that have done it, providing the likes of employment and tax records for a period of 5 years, considering they are retained for even longer, in the modern world is hardly rocket science.

 

[cupid_stunt]

All gone a bit quiet on the whole 48 letters front.

I wonder if, in fact, they just don't have the fucking numbers and the excitement last night / this morning was all just political correspondents being duped (again) by ERG members?

The reports I've heard this morning is they think only around 20 letters have gone in, which seems surprising.

 

[Crispy]

All gone a bit quiet on the whole 48 letters front.

*shelling continues*

 

[killer b]

The reports I've heard this morning is they think only around 20 letters have gone in, which seems surprising.

I'm not surprised.

 

[Yossarian]

Apparently some EU citizens are having their permanent residency applications rejected because they didn't buy comprehensive sickness insurance for periods when they weren't working, including time studying or taking years off work to bring up children.

EU citizens 'denied residency documents'


This kind of shit does seem a lot more characteristic of the Immigration Department than handing out automatic residency after 5 years.

 

[cupid_stunt]

So, both the BBC & Sky are way out with their claims.

* assuming that tweet is true.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

No, speaking from the knowledge of the experiences of people that have done it, providing the likes of employment and tax records for a period of 5 years, considering they are retained for even longer, in the modern world is hardly rocket science.

Until it isn't. Until something goes wrong with those records. People probably thought similar about all their paper records in the past. They'll be safely tucked up somewhere, surely. Remember that with Windrush, it was incumbent on people to prove things with particular records. The fact they could prove those same things with other records was irrelevant. The fact the officials deporting them knew full well what had happened was irrelevant. There was a basic bad faith involved in the whole process from the Home Office pov, which is why May's head should have rolled over it, and with similar bad faith in the future, following some digital problem whereby records are wiped perhaps, is far from inconceivable. Complacent in the extreme to say 'ah couldn't happen now cos technology'. Technology can and does go wrong in various unforeseen ways - rotten to pin your hopes for protecting rights and social justice on technology.

 

[Lord Camomile]

I thought they kept letters 'on file' and they had been steadily coming in over the course of Brexit negotiations. Which would be sort of mad, to be fair.

Maybe they have a shelf life?

 

[Crispy]

I thought they kept letters 'on file' and they had been steadily coming in over the course of Brexit negotiations. Which would be sort of mad, to be fair.

Maybe they have a shelf life?

They ring round to confirm them before making the formal announcement I think

 

[killer b]

this from Stephen Bush is good btw

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/columnists/brexit-chaos-theresa-may-prime-minister-dethroning/

 

[bemused]

Liam Fox (*spits) is sticking with her as well. Looks like low-carb Boris has fucked up.

 

[Lord Camomile]

They ring round to confirm them before making the formal announcement I think

Ah, that makes sense, I guess. But if that is the case I was under the impression they've been close to the 48 threshold for a while.

I have not, it's fair to say, been paying close attention to this...

 

[Crispy]

Steve Baker Brady (1922 chair) is a May supporter, so will double-triple check just to be sure

 

[bemused]

Ah, that makes sense, I guess. But if that is the case I was under the impression they've been close to the 48 threshold for a while.

I have not, it's fair to say, been paying close attention to this...

I saw an MP poo poo that idea, his point that the first call would leak in seconds.

 

[bemused]

Steve Baker [..]

Is it me or is he the creepiest of all JRM hangers on?

 

[Crispy]

Is it me or is he the creepiest of all JRM hangers on?

Not baker. Brady. 1922 chair.

 

[Pickman's model]

No, speaking from the knowledge of the experiences of people that have done it, providing the likes of employment and tax records for a period of 5 years, considering they are retained for even longer, in the modern world is hardly rocket science.

Having worked in the wonderful world of archives I can tell you you're living in cloud-cuckoo land

 

[belboid]

No, speaking from the knowledge of the experiences of people that have done it, providing the likes of employment and tax records for a period of 5 years, considering they are retained for even longer, in the modern world is hardly rocket science.

As I say, naive as hell.

Yes, lots of people can find the evidence quite easily. But 'a lot of people' isn't everyone. And the attitude of 'it's easy and anyone can do it' is precisely on of the stumbling blocks people face if their claim isn't as 100% straightforward as you seem to be assuming everyones is. Maybe she went back to whatever country her family as from for a while, to look after a sick relative or something. Maybe she was unemployed for a while, but living with a partner with a good job, so had no reason to claim. Maybe she went travelling for a bit. Maybe she is a massive drug dealer who avoided registering with the authorities. There are hundreds of reasons why people may not have full electronic records. The assumption that everyone does is a big problem.

 

[DexterTCN]

That was my thought after my first reply, they may not even be a EU citizen, in which case it's nonsense to post it on this thread.

Perhaps you should read the twitter thread then.

The google link you quoted (and the proper ones I checked) only seem to say you are entitled to apply. She applied and was refused.