Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Hollis]

yeah one of the things Leave were successful in, and Cameron fucked up on, was not having a lower voting age of 16 - unlike the Scottish referendum.. Again due to Westminster politics.

 

[Yogibear]

I'm fairly confident that remain would win a vote now. Interesting radio show with Giesla Stewart who chaired Vote Leave. She said she was angry with Cameron in the first place for calling a referundum, given that it was cynically offered for internal party politics, and this wasn't really the way to decide big issues in a representative democracy.

Hi Hollis perhaps you could find some interesting ways of getting us to where we are able to decide what we grow and what we produce as a small group of islands now...

 

[sealion]

What a lovely fucking legacy they have left us with.

Blame the eu and government.

 

[butchersapron]

Notoriously, people are now dying younger and remain voters are not aging or dying not in fact changing in any way whatsoever.

What a nasty post. You might as well say luckily the poor will be dying sooner than the better off remain voters.

 

[sealion]

What a nasty post.

Indeed, Spittle everywhere.

 

[DexterTCN]

My MP has switched, many people here have said they’d switch. Why do you doubt that?

Because your example was literally 4 out of 10 (5 including yourself) had crossed to leave. A 40-50% swing.

Is your MP important? Who is it?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Because your example was literally 4 out of 10 (5 including yourself) had crossed to leave. A 40-50% swing.

Is your MP important? Who is it?

I have not spoken to the others, so it is a 100% swing.

My MP is the Foreign Secretary.

 

[sleaterkinney]

likewise I know several - quite a few actually, including me - remain voters who would now vote leave. there are different reasons for their change of vote, but all of them would include the democratic issue. the political class asked for an instruction, it was given very clearly, they don't get to just keep on asking until they get an answer they find more acceptable or easier to implement.

in management terms - and they do work for us, not we for them - its JFDI (Just Fucking Do It).

If it was by a bigger majority I would agree with you, but it wasn't a clear enough decision imo. If it has gone the other way there is no way it would be taken as the end of the matter, we'd be talking about re-runs now.

The reasons I voted remain still haven't changed and the difficulty the political class have in implementing leave just proves what a shit idea it is.

 

[DexterTCN]

Right...100% and a tory MP.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Right...100% and a tory MP.

Yes. A wealthy area of Surrey, (no choice of party here so bound to be a Tory) voted remain, yet person after person I speak with says the same thing, “Just get on with it.”

You seem to be in some Guardian deluded land that ignores the fact that the millions of people whose lives have stagnated under austerity have not seen any improvement whilst Peston et al have been wailing over accessibility to fresh hand rolled kale and would vote again to stick the boot in.

 

[bimble]

‘Just get on with it’ isn’t really the same thing as crossing from remain to leave is it. It’s just accepting that remain lost the vote.

 

[Hollis]

‘Just get on with it’ isn’t really the same thing as crossing from remain to leave is it. It’s just accepting that remain lost the vote.

It isn't even that... it could just mean can't be arsed anymore/don't care/bored of it all.. wanna talk about something else..

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

‘Just get on with it’ isn’t really the same thing as crossing from remain to leave is it. It’s just accepting that remain lost the vote.

Quite, and I’m not a massively sociable person, but my neigbours that I speak with and parents at BB2’s school, they don’t want another vote and say that if there was one they’d vote out to get it done with. Which is the same thing.

And Jeremy Cunt very much had switched over, publicly. And for all his myriad faults he was born a brought up here, still lives here and weekly holds a surgery. Has he listened to his constituents and acted? Fuck knows, probably not. But he has changed his mind and I don’t see why it is so hard for people to understand that many others have done likewise.

 

[Yossarian]

I think the sentiment "Fucking figure out what the fuck a fucking Brexit is and get the fuck on with it already so people can talk about something else for five fucking minutes, you useless Tory cunts" is one that most people would agree with at this point, without necessarily being strongly in favour of Brexit itself.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

It isn't even that... it could just mean can't be arsed anymore/don't care/bored of it all.. wanna talk about something else..

Seriously, you see attitudes displayed on this very thread glorifying low life expectancy of the poor and you think people aren’t disgusted by that? It’s a vicious, nasty vibe running through the liberal establishment along with “thick, racist proles”.

It’s a nasty streak that’s been exposed in society.

 

[DexterTCN]

...You seem to be in some Guardian deluded land that ignores the fact that the millions of people whose lives have stagnated under austerity have not seen any improvement whilst Peston et al have been wailing over accessibility to fresh hand rolled kale and would vote again to stick the boot in.

Your insight is as good as your polling.

 

[CRI]

likewise I know several - quite a few actually, including me - remain voters who would now vote leave. there are different reasons for their change of vote, but all of them would include the democratic issue. the political class asked for an instruction, it was given very clearly, they don't get to just keep on asking until they get an answer they find more acceptable or easier to implement.

in management terms - and they do work for us, not we for them - its JFDI (Just Fucking Do It).

Genuinely, you re the first person I have ever heard say this.

 

[Yogibear]

.

 

[CRI]

The people I've talked to who are "meh" about Brexit seem either to people who voted leave who don't want to be associated with the racist UKIP / EDL contingent (even if when in the next breath they make some comment about controlling Emma Grayshun ), or they're wealthy enough (and white British enough) to believe that when the Brexit shit hits the fan, other people will get the full force of it while they'll be spared the worst privations. They might wince about the absence of avocado toast, but otherwise will probably be fine. Some are both of course.

 

[kabbes]

Genuinely, you re the first person I have ever heard say this.

Apart from me who said it earlier in thread. On multiple occasions.

 

[butchersapron]

The people I've talked to who are "meh" about Brexit seem either to people who voted leave who don't want to be associated with the racist UKIP / EDL contingent (even if when in the next breath they make some comment about controlling Emma Grayshun ), or they're wealthy enough (and white British enough) to believe that when the Brexit shit hits the fan, other people will get the full force of it while they'll be spared the worst privations. They might wince about the absence of avocado toast, but otherwise will probably be fine. Some are both of course.

How perfectly handy for you!

 

[CRI]

Apart from me who said it earlier in thread. On multiple occasions.

I haven't read every post on the thread, but here you go, you can be a Number Two then!

 

[CRI]

Have talked to some colleagues also living in island communities doing the same thing. Why the fuck do people think this is just tickity boo?

Thread by @howardhardiman: "I live on a remote Scottish island and we are starting to plan food stores and increased food production because of a Brexit which Scotland […]"

 

[MightyTibberton]

To add to the anecdotal totalling, I know one Leave to Remain switch...

"Hardening of attitudes" though seems to sum up a lot of the stuff I've seen online, in both directions. There has been looooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaddddddddddsssssssssss of polling on it. The biggest change that I can recall seeing is that there was quite a big jump in support for Remain in Northern Ireland.

I can't see there being another referendum though. For a start, it takes about a year to set one up I think, and you'd have to get a bill through parliament to do it and I don't think anyone will. Unless there's some massive revelation or change in circumstances I still think a general election is more likely and that might turn into a proxy referendum or the offer of a second vote might become an issue...

Who fucking knows though.

 

[CRI]

To add to the anecdotal totalling, I know one Leave to Remain switch...

"Hardening of attitudes" though seems to sum up a lot of the stuff I've seen online, in both directions. There has been looooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaddddddddddsssssssssss of polling on it. The biggest change that I can recall seeing is that there was quite a big jump in support for Remain in Northern Ireland.

I can't see there being another referendum though. For a start, it takes about a year to set one up I think, and you'd have to get a bill through parliament to do it and I don't think anyone will. Unless there's some massive revelation or change in circumstances I still think a general election is more likely and that might turn into a proxy referendum or the offer of a second vote might become an issue...

Who fucking knows though.

Hell, it was an advisory referendum. There doesn't actually need to be another vote to stop the speeding train that is Brexit crashing into the sea.

But the Tories are determined to get out before the EU Anti Tax Avoidance Directive kicks in, else they and their rich knob chums won't be able to keep the money they've screwed out of the rest of us away from the taxman's eyes. The Labour opposition's lockstep with the Tories is more puzzling, but either way, most of us are still going to be fucked.

 

[kabbes]

I haven't read every post on the thread, but here you go, you can be a Number Two then!

And the other people who said it on this thread.

 

[teuchter]

attitudes displayed on this very thread glorifying low life expectancy of the poor

where was that again?

 

[CRI]

 

[MightyTibberton]

The polls I have seen say that around 2/3 of Labour voters (at the last election) voted Remain and about 1/3 Leave. The Tories are the roughly a mirror image.

I presume the Labour Party has access to more accurate stuff than that, breaking things down by constituency and the like, and I think they believe they will not win an election if they become the "Remain" or "second vote" party. Even if they threw aside a purely cynical electoral-maths argument, there would have to be agreement at the top of the party that challenging a referendum result that was trailed (dishonestly) as being decisive on the matter would be the right thing to do.

I think they should do what they can to support the best deal that can be got and to absolutely make sure there isn't a No Deal crash out and that seems to be what is happening.

However, Labour's Six Tests, which they say must be passed by any deal that they vote for in Parliament can't be passed because they include getting "the exact same benefits" as we have from being in the Single Market and the Customs Union, so I don't know what that means other than I think they will whip to vote against May's deal and hope that that means a general election. . .

 

[MightyTibberton]

Looking at that poll - it's a bit out of date, and things seem to move quickly in these febrile times

How Britain's views have changed – full Brexit poll results

I love how there's always a small percentage of UKIP Remain voters.