Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[redsquirrel]

I meant labour too but my phone capitalised it, and by free marketers I mean that the brexit they are working on includes lowering barriers, protections, more competition etc it's the point of brexit for them. It isn't a theory - it's what they want to happen and they are in power.

That's been happening for the last 30-40 years during the time the UK has been in the EU. And lowering barriers, protections, increased competition is part of the purpose of the neo-liberal EU. That's currently what's happening with the killings in Greece.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Is Greece the equivalent of the Tories shouting Venezuela or something?.

Do you think the people running brexit (No hypotheticals) have the interest of labour at heart?.

 

[redsquirrel]

Do you think the people running the EU have the interest of labour at heart?

They're all the enemy, I want to see the lot of them hanging from lampposts

 

[teqniq]

Yup, lampposts, pikes. I'm not fussy.

 

[DotCommunist]

well the point with greece was it was where I could no longer think that for all its fualts, better in than out. Mind you some people say that couldn't happen here, neatly showing how little they give a shit about greeks having to eat out of bins. Don't look at the kid getting a kicking, just be glad it isn't you. yuk

 

[Pickman's model]

Yup, lampposts, pikes. I'm not fussy.

it's not one or the other, it can be both. but first lampposts then pikes.

 

[teqniq]

 

[Pickman's model]

well the point with greece was it was where I could no longer think that for all its fualts, better in than out. Mind you some people say that couldn't happen here, neatly showing how little they give a shit about greeks having to eat out of bins. Don't look at the kid getting a kicking, just be glad it isn't you. yuk

not to mention what so many people have to do here already.

 

[Wilf]

it's not one or the other, it can be both. but first lampposts then pikes.

Hang them from lamppost and then use the pikes Pinata style to see what they're made of. It's a compromise I know, a mixed-method if you like.

 

[Pickman's model]

Hang them from lamppost and then use the pikes Pinata style to see what they're made of. It's a compromise I know, a mixed-method if you like.

the street justice equivalent of beans then cheese

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Hang them from lamppost and then use the pikes Pinata style to see what they're made of. It's a compromise I know, a mixed-method if you like.

Wow, great idea for my son's next birthday

 

[Pickman's model]

Wow, great idea for my son's next birthday

if you get in quick you could string up iain duncan smith tho' he's in great demand

 

[teqniq]

'I've got a little list...'

 

[Pickman's model]

'I've got a little list...'

 

[teqniq]

Ditch neoliberalism to win again, Jeremy Corbyn tells Europe’s centre-left parties

 

[DotCommunist]

Ditch neoliberalism to win again, Jeremy Corbyn tells Europe’s centre-left parties

no mention of wether or not they sung 'oh jeremy corbyn' in euro accents

 

[pocketscience]

Perhaps it would be a good idea for there to be a thread about the chances of stopping Brexit which doesn't get derailed by lexiteering. There's a lexit thread which is similarly prescriptive.

tbf the lexit thread got derailed by the bremoaners (seeing as we're reverting to name calling too)

 

[Silas Loom]

tbf the lexit thread got derailed by the bremoaners (seeing as we're reverting to name calling too)

Yeah, that's the thing. On any site, from Conservative Home through to Urban to pigeon fancier forums to village bulletin boards, the best solution is likely to be separate threads. It's fundamentally a polarised debate; there might as well be structures for constructive discussion that admit that.

 

[redsquirrel]

I always enjoy and usually agree with your posts but I think this is going a bit too far. Capital and Labour are abstract nouns, abstract nouns can't punish or even really do anything.

OK, here we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't believe capital and labour are just abstract nouns, they are principle forces who's interaction causes the changes in our society.

I find it extremely difficult to believe that the directors of whatever bank is deciding to move their HQ and create 3000 redundancies are sitting together saying, ''How can we punish those naughty proles?''

I'm not arguing that that is happening. But when economists release data showing how terrible Brexit will be that's not a prediction, it's a threat - thou shalt have no other gods before me.

 

[SpackleFrog]

and this is best achieved via recession, resurgent nationalism and with Jacob Rees Mogg leading the way is it?

You are so dishonest it's not even funny. Point to where I've said we should have any of those things. We already have an economic crisis, we have had resurgent racism/nationalism for decades as the old organisations of the working class had collapsed.

Who is struggling? What does the struggle consist of, specifically? Is there the chance the struggle will end in people's deaths? Whose?

I'm a bit tired of abstract nouns replacing empathy tbc. Real people suffer, abstract nouns don't.

Everybody - life under capitalism is struggle. I'm pleased you're concerned about the suffering of real people - I take it you like me want to see and end to working class people dieing because of Tory benefit cuts or Syrian refugees drowning in the Med because Fortress Europe doesn't give a shit. I take it you, like me, will feel similar revulsion to the politicians that allow this to happen, whether it be May or Merkel or Macron.

 

[mojo pixy]

But when economists release data showing how terrible Brexit will be that's not a prediction, it's a threat - thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Kind of, but I'd say it actually stems from fear. Those economists lack the imagination to see beyond their models and they're terrified of change which is set to wreck those models and create new ones which they don't understand and can't control. Hence the threats. They want us to be as frightened as they are.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Perhaps it would be a good idea for there to be a thread about the chances of stopping Brexit which doesn't get derailed by lexiteering. There's a lexit thread which is similarly prescriptive.

I had no idea it was a thread about stopping Brexit, sorry. I assumed it was a thread about whether or not the Tories were going to try and wriggle out of it.

I can answer the question for you though - nobody on this thread will stop Brexit but if May continues to look like a political corpse with a stick up her back then the Tories may do so. And presumably the EU is 'hardballing' on everything so that in the final analysis the choice for whatever government will be 'no deal' or reverse the process and ask to be let back in. A bit like Rajoy is doing by threatening to implement direct rule in Catalonia.

 

[seventh bullet]

it's not one or the other, it can be both. but first lampposts then pikes.

Oh, some have got plenty of work in them before they expire. Just those caught up in the fury will be swinging.

 

[Silas Loom]

I had no idea it was a thread about stopping Brexit, sorry. .

No, not at all, I was suggesting a whole new thread for those of us for whom Brexit is worse than anything else that has happened, ever, and who are baffled as to how they can fight it. Like you, I thought this thread was essentially predictive.

 

[BemusedbyLife]

I'm not arguing that that is happening. But when economists release data showing how terrible Brexit will be that's not a prediction, it's a threat - thou shalt have no other gods before me.

No it's a prediction, a threat is a suggested response to encourage or deter desired behaviour and it may or may not happen depending on how the threatened react.
What most if not all economists are predicting is that there will in the short to medium term a negative loss to the UK economy in the event of a hard brexit, polictical idealogies are not relevant, Maths doesn't care about left or right or what people want to happen, it's just an analysis of the data available.
The data could be wrong or it could be incomplete, but trying to deny it based on your own idealogy is pointless it won't change anything.

 

[Pickman's model]

Oh, some have got plenty of work in them before they expire.

yeh canal digging in south georgia for most of them.

 

[redsquirrel]

What most if not all economists are predicting is that there will in the short to medium term a negative loss to the UK economy in the event of a hard brexit, polictical idealogies are not relevant, Maths doesn't care about left or right or what people want to happen, it's just an analysis of the data available.

Political ideologies are central where economics is concerned because that's what economics is.

Economics isn't 'just an analysis of the data available'

It's not about wealth and how to raise living standards it's about how to justify wealth inequalities and contain living standards through the suggestion that there is a science called economics.

That;'s literally what all it is.

The data could be wrong or it could be incomplete, but trying to deny it based on your own idealogy is pointless it won't change anything.

First remove the beam out of your own eye.

 

[SpackleFrog]

those of us for whom Brexit is worse than anything else that has happened, ever

Er...what? Is that what you think?

Maths doesn't care about left or right or what people want to happen, it's just an analysis of the data available.
The data could be wrong or it could be incomplete, but trying to deny it based on your own idealogy is pointless it won't change anything.

You are a fucking moron.

 

[Silas Loom]

Er...what? Is that what you think?

Yes. Well, worst thing I can remember, thinking only of the UK. I doubt many on here feel similarly.

 

[Kaka Tim]

You are so dishonest it's not even funny. Point to where I've said we should have any of those things. We already have an economic crisis, we have had resurgent racism/nationalism for decades as the old organisations of the working class had collapsed..

i never said you did - but its what's likely to happen. And economic crises, resurgent nationalism and the material conditions of the working class will be made worse by brexit.