Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[steeplejack]

Still think the likeliest outcome is EU membership in all but name.

I've never known a UK government in such total disarray. I'm too young to remember 78-79 clearly. This is considerably worse than then I think.

 

[Dogsauce]

It’s OK, they’ll fix it all with ‘new technology’ apparently.

(Whenever this is mooted as a ‘solution’ for the NI border I always picture ED-209 rampaging along some rural lane in border country)

 

[alex_]

It’s OK, they’ll fix it all with ‘new technology’ apparently.

Something the government are legendary at organising, especially on tight timelines.

 

[MickiQ]

Still think the likeliest outcome is EU membership in all but name.

I've never known a UK government in such total disarray. I'm too young to remember 78-79 clearly. This is considerably worse than then I think.

Things were pretty chaotic back in 78-79 though it was over different issues, it pretty much boiled down to "who ran the country" with it rapidly becoming obvious it wasn't the government, there are some similariies between Callaghan and May, they are/were both weak leaders who couldn't control their own parties.The 1979 General Election was the first one I ever voted in and the one that brought Thatcher to power, a truly dark day that hangs over the history of the country.

 

[not-bono-ever]

'Ireland has undermined the British government for over 100 years' - ITV presenter receives backlash after controversial comments | The Irish Post

"Ireland has undermined, the issue of Ireland in so many different ways has undermined, British governments, you know, going back well over 100 years now.”

Mr Rees-Mogg responded by reinforcing the claim, saying that the issue of Ireland had undermined British politics for “much more than 100 years. It’s a very long and complex history.”

Lolz, do these cunts know about history ?

 

[philosophical]

I saw somebody on the telly (discussing Windrush) wearing a top with the slogan 'no blacks no dogs, no Irish'.
This might be a poetic truth in regards to racism but I looked into it. Apparently the Centre for Irish Studies at London Metropolitan University has one single example of this slogan used by a landlady in Blackpool.
There were a number of 'no Irish' additions in turn of the 19/20'th century newspaper adverts for domestic service, ironically many of them in Dublin!
Those who say they well remember these slogans are to an extent perpetuating an Urban Myth.
However for the representatives of the UK media or Parliament to now try to somehow blame the Irish for their own brexit impasse, a group who had no say in the matter, and to suggest that somehow the Irish have been doing it and been belligerent for years against the 'English', is manna for the new wave anti Irish racists.
Brexiters updated slogan might read 'we want no Irish, because we have no ideas and take no responsibility'.

 

[teqniq]

What.

 

[teqniq]

Labour needs to wage war on EU neoliberalism to prevent a Brussels sabotage

 

[sealion]

Those who say they well remember these slogans are to an extent perpetuating an Urban Myth.

More bullshit from you. From memory, i can recall at least four pubs in 1970's Peckham with those shitty signs in the windows. My father and his mates took regular kickings from the old bill cause they were either black or irish. The scots and welsh didn't get any easy ride either.

 

[not-bono-ever]

even in the 90s, I knew S London pubs with No Travellers signs on the doors

 

[Pickman's model]

even in the 90s, I knew S London pubs with No Travellers signs on the doors

N London too, eg the Duke of York on Downham Road

Sign might have been there even in the early 00s

 

[sealion]

even in the 90s, I knew S London pubs with No Travellers signs on the doors

I'd forgotten about that. Peckham again and many in Deptford, New cross.

 

[philosophical]

More bullshit from you. From memory, i can recall at least four pubs in 1970's Peckham with those shitty signs in the windows. My father and his mates took regular kickings from the old bill cause they were either black or irish. The scots and welsh didn't get any easy ride either.

I was going by the Centre for Irish studies.
As a child kids gathered outside our council flat yelling 'go back to Ireland you Irish scum'
Yeah that is 'from memory' too.
No bullshit on my part in my post, simply unnecessary antagonism from you.

 

[Poi E]

Bugger the past. I've heard the most awful things about travellers from people of all walks of life. It's a knee-jerk or cheap crack about travellers and tarmac and light fingeredness or worse. Fucking abhorrent.

 

[sealion]

I was going by the Centre for Irish studies.

No reason to doubt No Irish, no blacks signs

No bullshit on my part in my post,

Apart from it being wide of the truth

simply unnecessary antagonism from you.

Every post you fling up here is antagonistic and looking for a reaction.

 

[philosophical]

Your Guardian link does not go against my first post today.
Errr, saying my post is bullshit, yet I am the antagonistic one?
Have you considered that you might be hypocritical?

 

[Teaboy]

even in the 90s, I knew S London pubs with No Travellers signs on the doors

Yeah I remember one in Oxford which would have been early 90's. I remember it sticking in my mind because they spelled 'sorry' wrong, it was like that on a chalkboard for years. It's weird and unnerving that the reason I remember it rather than the message it conveyed, mind my parents probably agreed with it.

 

[Pickman's model]

I saw somebody on the telly (discussing Windrush) wearing a top with the slogan 'no blacks no dogs, no Irish'.
This might be a poetic truth in regards to racism but I looked into it. Apparently the Centre for Irish Studies at London Metropolitan University has one single example of this slogan used by a landlady in Blackpool.
There were a number of 'no Irish' additions in turn of the 19/20'th century newspaper adverts for domestic service, ironically many of them in Dublin!
Those who say they well remember these slogans are to an extent perpetuating an Urban Myth.
However for the representatives of the UK media or Parliament to now try to somehow blame the Irish for their own brexit impasse, a group who had no say in the matter, and to suggest that somehow the Irish have been doing it and been belligerent for years against the 'English', is manna for the new wave anti Irish racists.
Brexiters updated slogan might read 'we want no Irish, because we have no ideas and take no responsibility'.

I have worked in a local authority archives and have no difficulty believing that these signs could exist without people taking and retaining photos of them. Archives only possess what photos people donate, and it would not to my mind be surprising if no one had taken pictures of these signs in the 60s and 70s or had kept them to donate

 

[Poi E]

How kindly would the landlord take to a punter whipping out the camera to take a photo of it? A certain kind of pub.

 

[sealion]

Most households still had an outside toilet and tin bath in the seventies, fuck all money no car ,no telly, hiding from the landlord on rent day, never mind the luxury of a camera.

 

[Pickman's model]

i suppose philosophical that lenny henry was making it all up on stage at the hackney empire in 1989 when he talked about the signs in his set there.

 

[Pickman's model]

Most households still had an outside toilet and tin bath in the seventies, fuck all money no car ,no telly, hiding from the landlord on rent day, never mind the luxury of a camera.

yeh, it shouldn't surprise that people who had cameras would use them to record family trips or occasions and not places which had refused them housing or service.

 

[sealion]

yeh, it shouldn't surprise that people who had cameras would use them to record family trips or occasions and not places which had refused them housing or service.

Internet- modern world , if you don't have pics it never happened

 

[Pickman's model]

Internet- modern world , if you don't have pics it never happened

i went to hackney archives some time ago to find out what they had about the riot outside the town hall in 1990. they have no pictures. i have 28.

 

[Pickman's model]

Internet- modern world , if you don't have pics it never happened

with these signs you have a number of people independently mentioning them, not least lenny henry and john lydon. there is a play, no blacks no irish, which was produced around 1987. it's not like the 'ira = i ran away' graffiti, for which there was only one very dubious source.

 

[philosophical]

I have worked in a local authority archives and have no difficulty believing that these signs could exist without people taking and retaining photos of them. Archives only possess what photos people donate, and it would not to my mind be surprising if no one had taken pictures of these signs in the 60s and 70s or had kept them to donate

I agree with you, especially the people probably wouldn't have wanted to waste film and the cost of developing on pictures of such signs.
In my post I accepted that if such signs did or didn't exist as preserved archive, there is a poetic truth in the racism such a phenomena expresses.
My post was following on from the latest stuff expressed about the history of so called troublesome Irish.
I am not disputing that racist signs exist, but a lot of people say they remember the specific wording I mentioned in signs, but there is some doubt about how widespread signs with that particular wording might have been.

 

[DexterTCN]

The revenue are continuing along with the assumption that no agreement will be reached and resources are being applied to that end.

 

[sealion]

but there is some doubt about how widespread signs with that particular wording might have been.

You are moving the goalposts again. Doubt by who ? Some fucking troll on the internet ? How rife did it have to be ? You can't doubt personal testimony.

 

[Raheem]

You can't doubt personal testimony.

Yes you can. I've seen it happen with my own eyes.

 

[sealion]

Yes you can. I've seen it happen with my own eyes.

I should have phrased it better but trolly boy still won't have it.