Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Bahnhof Strasse]

The backlash to the blue passports thing has actually managed to exceed the pointlessness and annoyance of the people who want the change in the first place. Quite impressive actually.

James O’Brien managed to do a whole three hour show on it, mind you he’s done 18 months of solid whinging so far, so it’s not a great shock.

 

[teuchter]

They know that already.

Did you ask them specifically about what you wrote here though?

 

[J Ed]

James O’Brien managed to do a whole three hour show on it, mind you he’s done 18 months of solid whinging so far, so it’s not a great shock.

Time for a little thing I call the Ben Goldacre fact check!! I think you'll find actually that the old passport was BLACK, not blue. Checkmate. Brexit is cancelled.

 

[William of Walworth]

To my own surprise, I'm really not bothered either way about blue passports, as in, I'd never have campaigned to reintroduce them (not caring much for Sun-led campaigns! ), but I''m not up in arms, or even bothered, about them being reintroduced either ...

My current passport is EU-brranded Burgundy and I don't care about that, it's just a thing that will get me to India in February once I've got my visa. And when it expires in 2023 I'll replace it with blue without being bothered at all.

I'm a critical-of-Brexit Remainer, but there are many other things that are far more important than passport design ....

 

[William of Walworth]

Time for a little thing I call the Ben Goldacre fact check!! I think you'll find actually that the old passport was BLACK, not blue. Checkmate. Brexit is cancelled.

I've occasionally seen the old passports in the recentish past in the course of my work (they were so old that they were invalid as ID, having expired). They looked as good as black admittedly, but really, if memory serves, they were very dark navy blue. Is this correct though??

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I've occasionally seen the old passports in the recentish past in the course of my work (they were so old that they were invalid as ID, having expired). They looked as good as black admittedly, but really, if memory serves, they were very dark navy blue. Is this correct though??

Yeah, same as old bill and sailor's uniforms.

 

[gosub]

Time for a little thing I call the Ben Goldacre fact check!! I think you'll find actually that the old passport was BLACK, not blue. Checkmate. Brexit is cancelled.

ICAO do not permit passports to be issued in black, blue they do.

 

[Yossarian]

Don't the Kiwis have black passports?

 

[sealion]

James O’Brien managed to do a whole three hour show on it, mind you he’s done 18 months of solid whinging so far, so it’s not a great shock.

He keeps on about leavers being lied to by lying to his own listeners

 

[gosub]

Don't the Kiwis have black passports?

Oh sorry, black is acceptable.Its black, blue, red or green.
Passport Index 2017 | World's passports in your pocket.

 

[DotCommunist]

thre groan was amusingly childish yesterday. Leading on the website with a story that was headlined 'blue passports will mean delays' cos an EU bod said so so ner, and a sub story about how they won't be made in england. Jesus who gives a fuck, d'ancona endlessly farting into his hand and sniffing it.

They were black in my memory anyway, and all I care about is that its not much change from a ton

 

[sealion]

Guardian readers still spitting and angry

SonofSagan LordMoore
15h ago






I look forward very much to when you and your 'majority' are driven into the sea. I'm sure you are a nice person but you are representative of an intellectual cancer that is is rotting our country and dividing our society in irreparable ways. But Merry Christmas to you.
-------------------

michaelsherif LordMoore
15h ago




Is it humane to give myopic Brexiteers passports? This will enable to travel abroad - albeit with extra disadvantages - and ensure that they come face-to-face with non-English people, which could blow their tiny little minds.
---------------------------

 

[SpackleFrog]

So yeah, be good if people could not make it harder for other people to discuss and analyse imperialist power relations within and beyond the EU by throwing out irrelevant cultural stereotypes and xenophobia.

 

[teuchter]

So yeah, be good if people could not make it harder for other people to discuss and analyse imperialist power relations within and beyond the EU by throwing out irrelevant cultural stereotypes and xenophobia.

NB how, above, VW's misdemeanors are blamed not on the economic motives, decision making structure and relationship to government of a large corporation, but the ingrained character flaws of 'the Germans'.

 

[bemused]

thre groan was amusingly childish yesterday. Leading on the website with a story that was headlined 'blue passports will mean delays' cos an EU bod said so so ner [...]

I read that, they said we'd have to use a similar system to the ESTA in the US. I travel to the US about once a month and the ESTA is pretty painless. It was a story about the shocking fact that if you aren't the EU you'll need to go through with some form of visa.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I read that, they said we'd have to use a similar system to the ESTA in the US. I travel to the US about once a month and the ESTA is pretty painless. It was a story about the shocking fact that if you aren't the EU you'll need to go through with some form of visa.

Yeah, as with most stuff in that ‘paper’ it is wrong. They stated that all non-EU passports need a visa to enter the EU, which is a lie. We will need to show our passports, as we currently do when entering the Schengen zone from the UK or Ireland, nothing will change except the EU Lane will be closed to us, unless it isn’t.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I want a green passport. What foolishness do I need to vote for to get one of them?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I want a green passport. What foolishness do I need to vote for to get one of them?

Get Irish citizenship, then agitate for iexit, once that’s done if things don’t look too clever the politicos will make the glorious pronouncement that the hated burgundy book is to return to splendid green. And much Guinness will be drunk that fine day.

 

[William of Walworth]

thre groan was amusingly childish yesterday. Leading on the website with a story that was headlined 'blue passports will mean delays' cos an EU bod said so so ner, and a sub story about how they won't be made in england. Jesus who gives a fuck, d'ancona endlessly farting into his hand and sniffing it.

They were black in my memory anyway, and all I care about is that its not much change from a ton

As bad Guardian remainism went, that was particularly bad. (And I'm a Remainer myself )

Passport colour based shite is the lowest level Brexit 'controversy' ever ....

 

[gosub]

As bad Guardian remainism went, that was particularly bad. (And I'm a Remainer myself )

Passport colour based shite is the lowest level Brexit 'controversy' ever ....

I think the contraversy is of ALL the shit that's up in the air... I need a blue bit from my red white and blue Brexit.

 

[Dogsauce]

I had one of the last of the old blue passports issued, summer 1991, first passport I ever had. The fondness I have for it was the handwritten date of birth, with a very short '1' that a skilled friend was able to neatly and convincingly amend into a nice round zero with a dark pencil, giving me the ability to drink in US bars several months early.

 

[pocketscience]

Did you ask them specifically about what you wrote here though?

No, as I said, they know already. We've spoken at length about it many a time.
Just to show how fucking pathetic it is to label me racist/ xenophobic for what I said (and trying to get me banned for it lol), very close relatives of mine are from Saxony in the former East Germany. They're ashamed and deplored by the fact that the majority of the population in their constituency are (in the true sense of the words) racist and xenophobic. They wouldn't hesitate to confirm that the majority of the population in the region they live in is racist, most likely more racist that anywhere else in Europe. They hate racism and xenophobia and are actively fighting it, but are realists.
Yet according to some imbecilic posters on this thread, they'd be, by the dictionary definition, racist and xenophobic themselves.
Unfuckingbelievable... pat yourselves on the back.

Borders were/are set up by cunts for their self fulfilling intentions - primarily to maintain their own power within these borders. These cunts set up systems within these borders that indoctrinate the people within. How the fuck is it racist to highlight the resulting differences of what goes on either side of these political borders? Either unsavoury or pleasant.

 

[B.I.G]

No, as I said, they know already. We've spoken at length about it many a time. Just to show how fucking pathetic it is to label me racist/ xenophobic for what I said (and trying to get me banned for it lol), very close relatives of mine are from Saxony in the former East Germany. They're ashamed and deplored by the fact that the majority of the population in their constituency are (in the true sense of the words) racist and xenophobic. They wouldn't hesitate to confirm that the majority of the population in the region they live in is racist, most likely more racist that anywhere else in Europe. They hate racism and xenophobia and are actively fighting it, but are realists.
Yet according to some imbecilic posters on this thread, they are, by the dictionary definition, racist and xenophobic themselves. Unfuckingbelievable... pat yourselves on the back.

Borders were/are set up by cunts for their self fulfilling intentions - primarily to maintain their own power within these borders. These cunts set up systems within these borders that indoctrinate the people within. How the fuck is it racist to highlight the resulting differences of what goes on either side of these political borders? Either unsavoury or pleasant.

Tell us more about national characteristics?

Albanians?
Belgians?
Canadians?
Danish?

 

[pocketscience]

Tell us more about national characteristics?

Albanians?
Belgians?
Canadians?
Danish?

Fuck off and ask a dentist about ingrowing toenails

 

[B.I.G]

Fuck off and ask a dentist about ingrowing toenails

I don't get it. Is it cos I is English?

 

[teuchter]

No, as I said, they know already. We've spoken at length about it many a time.
Just to show how fucking pathetic it is to label me racist/ xenophobic for what I said (and trying to get me banned for it lol), very close relatives of mine are from Saxony in the former East Germany. They're ashamed and deplored by the fact that the majority of the population in their constituency are (in the true sense of the words) racist and xenophobic. They wouldn't hesitate to confirm that the majority of the population in the region they live in is racist, most likely more racist that anywhere else in Europe. They hate racism and xenophobia and are actively fighting it, but are realists.
Yet according to some imbecilic posters on this thread, they'd be, by the dictionary definition, racist and xenophobic themselves.
Unfuckingbelievable... pat yourselves on the back.

Borders were/are set up by cunts for their self fulfilling intentions - primarily to maintain their own power within these borders. These cunts set up systems within these borders that indoctrinate the people within. How the fuck is it racist to highlight the resulting differences of what goes on either side of these political borders? Either unsavoury or pleasant.

These are your anecdotes - you say that the majority of people in one part of germany are racist, therefore you are justified in making sweeping generalisations about the country as a whole. My anecdote - having lived for a little while in germany, visiting quite frequently and having a good few german friends - my opinion is that what you said, about the majority of german individuals having various unpleasant character traits, is a load of utter nonsense.

You have to have a look at what you actually wrote. Maybe you just happened to word things badly, but what you wrote comes across as very dodgy which is why I ask if you have let your german relatives see the detail of what you said. It's one thing making observations about cultural norms that may cause one group of people to tend to behave slightly differently, on average, in certain situations, than another. It's another thing though to start talking about ingrained negative characteristics in the majority of a certain group of people. You specifically said "majority" and also used the word "individuals". The whole tone of your post feels dangerously close to full on racism that implies negative traits are genetic. That's why people have reacted. I realise you did not say that explicitly and may not have intended to imply anything like that but you should go and look at your wording and try and see why it skims on very dubious territory. And the word "crafty" which means getting things by underhand means. You do realise that's pretty much exactly the stereotype employed against Jews in earlier periods of German history?

I don't have a problem with observations about germany's geographical and economic position being significant in how it interacts with the rest of Europe, and comparisons of the current situation with other periods in history. But as soon as you start talking about things like personality traits - you have to be very careful. Because that exactly is the kind of stuff that excuses racism and judging people on the basis of the group you've assigned them to rather than the individual themselves. And you don't get out of it with 'some of my best friends are German' backpedalling.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Rees-Mogg, man of the stork-people.

Fixed that for you.

 

[DotCommunist]

so they are going to trial the ID required at polling stations wheeze at next years locals. Five areas. Passports and drivers licenses cost money. 70 quid+. This is far more important than the goddam colour of the item. If the state requires me to have a passport to travel it should provide one, if it wants it for a vote then everyone should get it free. this policy had better be in the next labour manifesto.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Tell us more about national characteristics?

Albanians?
Belgians?
Canadians?
Danish?

Albanians - Violent vendetta-seekers.
Belgians - Paedophiles.
Canadians - Wanna-be US of A-ians.
Danes - crypto-Krauts.

Just a few I've heard recently, along with French - subsidy-guzzling garlic munchers; Poles - nation where all males are wife-beaters; Serbs - violently-xenophobic expansionist nationalists.

 

[ViolentPanda]

These are your anecdotes - you say that the majority of people in one part of germany are racist, therefore you are justified in making sweeping generalisations about the country as a whole. My anecdote - having lived for a little while in germany, visiting quite frequently and having a good few german friends - my opinion is that what you said, about the majority of german individuals having various unpleasant character traits, is a load of utter nonsense.

You have to have a look at what you actually wrote. Maybe you just happened to word things badly, but what you wrote comes across as very dodgy which is why I ask if you have let your german relatives see the detail of what you said. It's one thing making observations about cultural norms that may cause one group of people to tend to behave slightly differently, on average, in certain situations, than another. It's another thing though to start talking about ingrained negative characteristics in the majority of a certain group of people. You specifically said "majority" and also used the word "individuals". The whole tone of your post feels dangerously close to full on racism that implies negative traits are genetic. That's why people have reacted. I realise you did not say that explicitly and may not have intended to imply anything like that but you should go and look at your wording and try and see why it skims on very dubious territory. And the word "crafty" which means getting things by underhand means. You do realise that's pretty much exactly the stereotype employed against Jews in earlier periods of German history?

I don't have a problem with observations about germany's geographical and economic position being significant in how it interacts with the rest of Europe, and comparisons of the current situation with other periods in history. But as soon as you start talking about things like personality traits - you have to be very careful. Because that exactly is the kind of stuff that excuses racism and judging people on the basis of the group you've assigned them to rather than the individual themselves. And you don't get out of it with 'some of my best friends are German' backpedalling.

There's an issue in former DDR lande that anti-fascism and anti-racism are not as well-integrated into everyday thinking as in the former West Germany. This is supposedly - according to bodies like SOS Racisme and HRW - due to a lack of political de-Nazification (as opposed to de-Nazification by liquidation) in the east, and to a post-reunification landscape that left those lande with little industry, and with that little under a regulatory stranglehold. Easy to blame "the other", whether that's Brandenburgers or blacks, and there have always been politicians, post-reunification, who are willing to stir the pot, whether about unemployment, housing or general welfare. Such othering isn't innate though, as some posters appear to imply. It's very obviously a product of social attitudes that were born in the political class, pumped through the media, and normalised into "common-sense" usage over a period of time. Same old scapegoating shit, produced by a new class of arseholes.