Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[pocketscience]

Oh, you're Australian!!

That explains everything!!

Howso?... (careful , no ugly generalisations about our antipodean friends now)

 

[B.I.G]

like I said before, people don't hold back about the british on here. Must be the low self-esteem the british have of themselves. Funny characteristic that one.
And then there's the welsh, irish & scots in the football forum when england play. like a klan meeting it is.

All people of all nationalities make fun of each other. The vast majority of all people of all nationalities are racist / xenophobic.

Judging by all the Brexit talk it seems low self-esteem is one fault the English can't be accused of.

Did I mention some of my best friends are black?

 

[Kaka Tim]

C,mon - what pocket science is only the same as stating that -

the irish are thick
scots are tight fisted
the spanish are lazy
the greeks smell
and the welsh shag sheep.

so not racist at all.

 

[gosub]

 

[Riklet]

This stingy cold vicious blablabla Germany is perhaps one of the European countries that had the most organised working class and Comunist party etc.

I mean fair enough criticising German economic policy in Europe but it's far too easy to read too deeply into national traits and characteristics. Are my British 'traits' responsible for colonialism the slave trade and imperial slaughter? It is never anywhere near as black and white...

 

[pocketscience]

This stingy cold vicious blablabla Germany is perhaps one of the European countries that had the most organised working class and Comunist party etc.
.

From my experience, it's those very working class Germans that for the decades since the war have done the most soul searching about how their ancestors caused the atrocities of ww2.

I mean fair enough criticising German economic policy in Europe but it's far too easy to read too deeply into national traits and characteristics. Are my British 'traits' responsible for colonialism the slave trade and imperial slaughter? It is never anywhere near as black and white...

For some posters here it's apparently not a matter of lookung too deeply into national traits or characteristics, rather simply recognising oo acknowledging any such traits or characteristics.

I wonder how say Bill Bryson is thought of in this respect. In his travel books like 'Tales from a small Island' or 'down under' he constantly refers to national stereotypes of the Brits and aussies in his own humourous way. It'd be hard to label him racist though.
Maybe it's just that I used those negative attributes for germany.
For example, one of the characteristics if germans that I most love is their honesty. They often cant help themselves telling the brutal truth, sometimes in the most sensitive of situations, when it would have probably been best just to keep their thoughts to themselves (not far different to how I've described them above). Ironic isn't it.
Then there's that old chestnut of their brilliant social organisation, which enables them such great engineering. Racist stereotype?

 

[Pickman's model]

This stingy cold vicious blablabla Germany is perhaps one of the European countries that had the most organised working class and Comunist party etc.

I mean fair enough criticising German economic policy in Europe but it's far too easy to read too deeply into national traits and characteristics. Are my British 'traits' responsible for colonialism the slave trade and imperial slaughter? It is never anywhere near as black and white...

Perhaps you have it arse over tit and empire responsible for British traits than the other way round - and to which British traits do you refer?

 

[J Ed]

Productive discussion. Let's do interpreting European politics and sociology through phrenology next!

 

[bimble]

For example, one of the characteristics if germans that I most love is their honesty. They often cant help themselves telling the brutal truth, sometimes in the most sensitive of situations, when it would have probably been best just to keep their thoughts to themselves

But also they are very 'crafty'. ok.

 

[A380]

Most of the Germans I know identify themselves as being from their regigion/land/old state first then as Germans.

So they will say they are Bavarian or from Saxony then German. In a similar way to people who say they are English, Welsh or Scottish before they are British.

The exception to this is people I know from Prussia*who all seem quite negative about their Prussioness.

My sample size isn’t huge c 25 people. I wonder if any German Urbs or people with other links to Germany could share their views.

I think being ‘German’ is a slightly different concept than that of perhaps being ‘French’ or being ‘American’.

This might, might, be a reason many German people are so committed to the EU?

(* One chap who’s family was so distrusted by the DDR regime that, before they let him go to medical school, they made him do FIVE years compulsory military service, most in the old USSR. Mind you he got to command a katyusha rocket unit. So not all bad then...)

 

[JimW]

Neither Holy or Roman

 

[A380]

Neither Holy or Roman

Not really an empire either...

 

[Yossarian]

I'd say that yes. Combined with other unsavoury individual characteristics like selfishness and being inconsiderate that seem to be deeply ingrained into the majority of the population. I also find they're crafty and persistent at getting what they want.

Have you lost your mind? Describing negative or "unsavoury" characteristics as being "deeply ingrained" into a population is almost the dictionary definition of racism. So please stop doing it.

I know a lot of German people, including my mother-in-law, and they're all different, it's almost as if they came from a country of 80 million individuals with their own characteristics.

 

[Pickman's model]

You missed out clinical, efficient and bastards with the sunbeds

I'd say that yes. Combined with other unsavoury individual characteristics like selfishness and being inconsiderate that seem to be deeply ingrained into the majority of the population. I also find they're crafty and persistent at getting what they want. Not all germans mind, but IMO a disproportionately high number compared with most other countries.
On a national level it does start to paint an ugly picture and these individual characteristics seem to lend themselves particularly well to politicians, who obviously end up being the ones shaping policies reflecting these characteristics on the nation both internally and abroad.
I think you'll find most germans from center left to the outer left wing fringes would openly agree with a lot of this - particularly on the outer fringes e.g: German Antifa won't have a good word to say about the nation as a whole and it's not uncommon to meet people making it their life mission to hinder what they believe is the inevitable reoccurrence of fascism in Germany.

On a topical note: why do you think it's Germany standing alone opposing closer federal unity, and particularly a federal fiscal policy in the EU? and realistically, do you really think there's a chance that the remaining 26 nations will be able to overturn the german 'will' on that policy?

German have full hegemony in the Eu right now. I doubt they'll be letting go of that too soon.

 

[B.I.G]

pocketscience

What about Germans that follow Judaism? Or Islam?

Do they have a subsection of characteristics from the broader German traits you have described?

Germans whose parents were born in Turkey or Poland?

What about the Germans whose parents were born in Africa?

Are they all the same or little differences between the wider groups based where there parents were born and/or lived?

I need to know.

 

[butchersapron]

pocketscience

What about Germans that follow Judaism? Or Islam?

Do they have a subsection of characteristics from the broader German traits you have described?

Germans whose parents were born in Turkey or Poland?

What about the Germans whose parents were born in Africa?

Are they all the same or little differences between the wider groups based where there parents were born and/or lived?

I need to know.

Interesting - placing traits/characteristics/assumptions on huge swathes of people is only acceptable to you when done on the basis of class.

 

[B.I.G]

Interesting - placing traits/characteristics/assumptions on huge swathes of people is only acceptable to you when done on the basis of class.

Nope. Just voting. I am working class. Maybe my upbringing wasn't working class enough for you though.

 

[B.I.G]

For example. If you are working class and you vote tory you have to be thick.

 

[DotCommunist]

oh sweet jesus of nazareth

 

[gosub]

For example. If you are working class and you vote tory you have to be thick.

Out of curiosity who do you vote for if you are working class? What with Labour turning itself into the party of the impoverished graduate.

 

[J Ed]

Out of curiosity who do you vote for if you are working class? What with Labour turning itself into the party of the impoverished graduate.

So you can't be an 'impoverished' graduate and working-class then?

 

[B.I.G]

Out of curiosity who do you vote for if you are working class? What with Labour turning itself into the party of the impoverished graduate.

My understanding from urban is that a lot of people don't vote either because they are all the same or because real change can't come about through the ballot box.

But as an impoverished graduate I vote for labour. I encourage others to vote for whoever they believe will improve their situation.

 

[sealion]

For example. If you are working class and you vote tory you have to be thick.

Just as well labour are looking out for us
http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/ash-london-labour-list.jpg
Social Cleansing and the Destruction of Council Estates Exposed at Screening of ‘Dispossession’ by Endangered New Cross Residents | Andy Worthington

 

[B.I.G]

Just as well labour are looking out for us
http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/ash-london-labour-list.jpg
Social Cleansing and the Destruction of Council Estates Exposed at Screening of ‘Dispossession’ by Endangered New Cross Residents | Andy Worthington

And the tories are?

 

[sealion]

And the tories are?

Not the point. Anyway you have form on here for digging out the working class. Thick and racist you cry, so fuck off.

 

[gosub]

So you can't be an 'impoverished' graduate and working-class then?

I suppose theorically but a bit of a waste of a degree, chances are your average poultry plucker or warehouse night shifter is going to think you're at least lower middle class by the time you graduate.

Anyway, was not an original observation by me, was a comment on stress fractures to come by Prof Curtice last week

 

[B.I.G]

Not the point. Anyway you have form on here for digging out the working class. Thick and racist you cry, so fuck off.

I disagree with some of my fellow working class views. Oh no!

 

[J Ed]

I suppose theorically but a bit of a waste of a degree, chances are your average poultry plucker or warehouse night shifter is going to think you're at least lower middle class by the time you graduate.

Anyway, was not an original observation by me, was a comment on stress fractures to come by Prof Curtice last week

Surprised you didn't go with the example of chimney sweep. You think there aren't any graduates working in warehouses?

 

[mather]

I disagree with some of my fellow working class views. Oh no!

Yeah, it was much more than mere disagreement though wasn't it you disingenuous twat.

 

[Dogsauce]

Anyway, blue passports - is that just something they've thrown out to distract/delight the nuttier brexitters while May backpedals on hard Brexit? Does that mean 'soft Brexit' is winning? The twitter lot seem pointlessly cross about it.