Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Pickman's model]

Um ok. I was trying to get a better idea of what you meant when you said that it’s going to cost a lot but it’s worth it to teach the ‘London liberal elite’ a lesson. I’m curious whether there’s any cost that you’d say would make it no longer worth it for that reason.

you could of course have asked 'why do you think it will be worth it?'

 

[Terry Manners]

Um ok. I was trying to get a better idea of what you meant when you said that it’s going to cost a lot but it’s worth it to teach the ‘London liberal elite’ a lesson. I’m curious whether there’s any cost that you’d say would make it no longer worth it for that reason.

I believe there will be a massive negative economic impact from Brexit, however that’s not to say a crash wouldn’t have happened with Remain anyway, so it’s not really about hard figures, but saying the gamble was probably worth it in terms of disruption of the normal way of doing things.

Of course whether people are in a position to take advantage of the disruption to create a more economically democratic society is another matter. If they are then we will know how much it was worth it.

 

[Winot]

I’m glad Britain left the EU because despite the huge cost of leaving because it’s good to show the liberal London elite that they can’t have it all their own way.

It would have been cheaper to prohibit avocado imports.

Still my UK passport runs out next year and I’m going to get an Irish one instead just in case.

Oh well as long as you're OK

 

[gosub]

Still my UK passport runs out next year and I’m going to get an Irish one instead just in case.

In same boat but NOT taking the Irish one... Got a sneaky suspicion it will end up tieing you into Federal EU tax claims at some time in the future.. Just like how the likes of Boris get a capital gains bill off the US treasury every time he moves house in London

 

[teuchter]

Its true I suppose the EU has kept the peace in Europe inasamuch as Germany is now able to control Europe without having to go to the expense of all those panzer divisions

I feel like I'm seeing more of these kinds of comments around recently and I don't like it at all.

 

[gosub]

I feel like I'm seeing more of these kinds of comments around recently and I don't like it at all.

German 'hypocrisy' over Greek military spending has critics up in arms

 

[Supine]

German 'hypocrisy' over Greek military spending has critics up in arms

7% spend on weapons us huge. The Greeks obviously love their toys of war.

 

[Badgers]

That sort of smug bullshit during the campaign definitely contributed in a small way to Leave winning.

Of course it was...

I am more interested in my next government paperwork anyway.

 

[Pickman's model]

Of course it was...

I am more interested in my next government paperwork anyway.

View attachment 123651

 

[Pickman's model]

I feel like I'm seeing more of these kinds of comments around recently and I don't like it at all.

count them so we don't have to rely solely on your impressions

 

[mather]

Elites tend to get their own way.

Apart from Brexit.

 

[mather]

7% spend on weapons us huge. The Greeks obviously love their toys of war.

They keep are large army to keep the Turks out.

 

[Pickman's model]

Apart from Brexit.

tbh parts of the elite on that one too. the metropolitan elites so despised by everyone aren't monolithic, and some of them vocally desired departure

 

[krtek a houby]

Apart from Brexit.

mmm, possibly. Boris has done reasonably well out of it, mind...

 

[Supine]

They keep are large army to keep the Turks out.

I know they have history but would turkey dare attack a member of the EU? Surely not.

 

[hot air baboon]

see comments on EU defence capability upthread

 

[krtek a houby]

I know they have history but would turkey dare attack a member of the EU? Surely not.

Diplomatic relations weren't too hot when Erdogan visited Greece recently and the Cyprus divide still remains. Hard to tell, these days. With all the internal upheaval, you'd think he'd be sorting out the domestic stuff but a conflict with Greece or Cyprus might be just what's needed to do that.

I hope not.

 

[bimble]

I feel like I'm seeing more of these kinds of comments around recently and I don't like it at all.

I don't know if this is what you meant but me I find it odd and quite alienating that pretty much every time i see a mention of the EU as an institution which reduces the chances of war between the member nations of Europe its almost always expressed in that sort of jokey way. This seems to me a serious matter, given that we were going at eachother for much of the past few centuries, so I can't figure out why its treated as a joke, could be a peculiar British thing perhaps our little island not having been invaded for such a long time.

 

[gosub]

I don't know if this is what you meant but me I find it odd and quite alienating that pretty much every time i see a mention of the EU as an institution which reduces the chances of war between the member nations of Europe its almost always expressed in that sort of jokey way. This seems to me a serious matter, given that we were going at eachother for much of the past few centuries, so I can't figure out why its treated as a joke, could be a peculiar British thing perhaps our little island not having been invaded for such a long time.

coz its probably more down to NATO which has been doing Defense for decades, rather than EU which started last Wednesday. And we've still had wars on Europes borders and fuck knows how Catalonia is going to pan out....plus its an extension OF the old ideas that meant wars still happened but on a scale that sucked every one in..

 

[teuchter]

I don't know if this is what you meant but me I find it odd and quite alienating that pretty much every time i see a mention of the EU as an institution which reduces the chances of war between the member nations of Europe its almost always expressed in that sort of jokey way. This seems to me a serious matter, given that we were going at eachother for much of the past few centuries, so I can't figure out why its treated as a joke, could be a peculiar British thing perhaps our little island not having been invaded for such a long time.

It's partly that but also why do criticisms of the german government, german national policy or anything else have to make mention of germany's past involvement in war? The germany today is not the Germany of 80 or 100 years ago, and I don't like the implication that there's something inherent in Germans that they are prone to forcibly take control of Europe. Aside from the fact that I count quite a few germans as friends it's basically a kind of racism, and the sort of bigoted thinking that I thought we'd left behind by now, possibly partly thanks to the EU. Furthermore for any Brit to make any comments about Germany's militaristic past is somewhat hypocritical.

 

[hot air baboon]

so I can't figure out why its treated as a joke

its not a joke - try reading The Tainted Source by John Laughland or Varoufakis's Adults in the Room - all you need do is just threaten to close the banks down

Exclusive: Chopra says ECB's threats to Ireland were 'outrageous' - Independent.ie

 

[bimble]

its not a joke - try reading The Tainted Source by John Laughland or Varoufakis's Adults in the Room - all you need do is just threaten to close the banks down

Exclusive: Chopra says ECB's threats to Ireland were 'outrageous' - Independent.ie

The relevance of this is that economic armtwisting by the central bank is the same thing as war? I was being completely literal, talking about actual war, which I know is unfashionable.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Apart from Brexit.

Like Farage and Johnson?

 

[bimble]

Like Farage and Johnson?

Rees-Mogg, man of the people.

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't know if this is what you meant but me I find it odd and quite alienating that pretty much every time i see a mention of the EU as an institution which reduces the chances of war between the member nations of Europe its almost always expressed in that sort of jokey way. This seems to me a serious matter, given that we were going at eachother for much of the past few centuries, so I can't figure out why its treated as a joke, could be a peculiar British thing perhaps our little island not having been invaded for such a long time.

Didn't auld clausewitz say war is politics carried out by other means? Tbh a lot of people have facile politics and something that sounds good will be repeated regardless of its truth

 

[hot air baboon]

I was being completely literal, talking about actual war

why on earth do you need to resort to a "war" if you can throw your weight around & control your hegemonic system by other means - this is hardly a new phenomenon

At a fractious European Community meeting last week, Germany announced to its partners that it was planning to recognize Slovenia and Croatia, even if it had to do so alone. To preserve a semblance of unity, the 12 member countries approved a resolution authorizing recognition of new nations that meet certain conditions, including stable borders, respect for democracy, and protection of minority rights. Thousands Killed in Fighting

Several European leaders, as well as President Bush and Secretary General Javier Perez de Cuellar of the United Nations, had urged Germany not to proceed with plans to recognize the two republics immediately. They suggested instead that recognition be withheld until it could be granted as part of an overall peace settlement.

Slovenia and Croatia Get Bonn's Nod

 

[agricola]

Didn't auld clausewitz say war is politics carried out by other means? Tbh a lot of people have facile politics and something that sounds good will be repeated regardless of its truth

Not always - the tenth / eleventh (or fourth / fifth if one prefers) century Syrian poet al-Ma'arri once said that there were two sorts of people in the world; those with reason but no religion and those with religion but no reason.

Sadly it did not catch on no matter how good it sounds, and they beheaded his statue nine hundred years after his death which perhaps proves how right he was.

 

[mather]

why on earth do you need to resort to a "war" if you can throw your weight around & control your hegemonic system by other means - this is hardly a new phenomenon

At a fractious European Community meeting last week, Germany announced to its partners that it was planning to recognize Slovenia and Croatia, even if it had to do so alone. To preserve a semblance of unity, the 12 member countries approved a resolution authorizing recognition of new nations that meet certain conditions, including stable borders, respect for democracy, and protection of minority rights. Thousands Killed in Fighting

Several European leaders, as well as President Bush and Secretary General Javier Perez de Cuellar of the United Nations, had urged Germany not to proceed with plans to recognize the two republics immediately. They suggested instead that recognition be withheld until it could be granted as part of an overall peace settlement.

Slovenia and Croatia Get Bonn's Nod

Germany up to it's old tricks yet again.

 

[bimble]

That article from 1991 seems a bit bonkers to me hot air baboon , with its ‘4th reich’ crap. Still, hitler’s always handy when you want to say anything a bit derogatory about the Germans.

 

[hot air baboon]

there's Martin Selmayr - pulling Junker's strings. In Varoufakis he quotes Schauble directly as admitting the utterly destructive & unachievable Greek austerity punishment beating was designed with only one aim to get the Troika in Paris. If people want to say Germany is not first among equals in the EU then we're going to have to disagree