DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
the drip of 'sweat' looks suss now you mention it
Is Brexit actually going to happen?
- Thread starter Kaka Tim
- Start date
sealion
Conformity is the last refuge of the unimaginitive
Thinking remain was a foregone conclusion shows how out of touch and arrogant they are.
I think the lot of them (labour and tory) are a joke, so it makes no difference as they'd both fuck it up.
sealion
Conformity is the last refuge of the unimaginitive
Do the people get a say or vote on these proposals ?
sealion
Conformity is the last refuge of the unimaginitive
I was hoping a remainer could tell us, as they seem to know what they were voting for. Only a thicko would vote without reading a manifesto first
gosub
~#
Sorry, forgot Cameron's Referendum Act, further integration so would have been a referendum...which had it gone the "wrong" way Pressure from EU27 to have another and get it "right" ....the ship is unsteerable
MightyTibberton
Well-Known Member
That is only a pressure group of about 100 MEPs and fewer than 8,000 "real people"....
I honestly think that very few people in the UK - outside those who are professionally engaged with it in some way - know very much about the EU. Our media has never really taken reporting on it seriously and a good part of our print media has engaged in a decades-long campaign of lies about it. UKIP was only able to gain a foothold in UK politics because the turnouts at European elections are so poor that their initially fringe views were able to gain representation and crucially funding by winning seats in the European parliament.
I think that's one (of the many) reasons why Leave won: they were able to go with simple, positive messages, but because there's very little genuine popular enthusiasm for the EU in the UK (rightly or wrongly, I think it's fair to say that's true - even in somewhere like South Wales where there's a huge amount of visble evidence of the EU spending lots of money locally) Remain went with quite a negative tone.
I honestly think that very few people in the UK - outside those who are professionally engaged with it in some way - know very much about the EU. Our media has never really taken reporting on it seriously and a good part of our print media has engaged in a decades-long campaign of lies about it. UKIP was only able to gain a foothold in UK politics because the turnouts at European elections are so poor that their initially fringe views were able to gain representation and crucially funding by winning seats in the European parliament.
I think that's one (of the many) reasons why Leave won: they were able to go with simple, positive messages, but because there's very little genuine popular enthusiasm for the EU in the UK (rightly or wrongly, I think it's fair to say that's true - even in somewhere like South Wales where there's a huge amount of visble evidence of the EU spending lots of money locally) Remain went with quite a negative tone.
It's possible that greater knowledge of how the EU works would have meant a stronger Leave vote.
Supine
Newt Member
The problem for me is remainers wanted to stay for a few key reasons. Avoiding another world war, freedom of travel, belonging to a wider community.
The brexit types had many more reasons for wanting to leave. Some of those were macro reasons like taking back control of our own destiny. For that I can kind of understand. Unfortunately there were loads of micro reasons that people voted for In self interest. Things like fishermen voting for improved fishing. Racists voting for less foreign types. People suffering austerity and wanting to improve their lot by having fewer people in the UK. People who protest voted not realising they actually made a difference. People who suffered from globalisation thinking brexit would change that.
I forget who said it, but referendums are like a sledgehammer to democracy. Sometimes the huge decisions should be made by people who have the time to study the subject in detail. Those who did almost all want to remain.
My 2p. Although it's probably only worth 1.12p now.
The brexit types had many more reasons for wanting to leave. Some of those were macro reasons like taking back control of our own destiny. For that I can kind of understand. Unfortunately there were loads of micro reasons that people voted for In self interest. Things like fishermen voting for improved fishing. Racists voting for less foreign types. People suffering austerity and wanting to improve their lot by having fewer people in the UK. People who protest voted not realising they actually made a difference. People who suffered from globalisation thinking brexit would change that.
I forget who said it, but referendums are like a sledgehammer to democracy. Sometimes the huge decisions should be made by people who have the time to study the subject in detail. Those who did almost all want to remain.
My 2p. Although it's probably only worth 1.12p now.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
NATO has kept peace in Europe (US &UK at the end of the day)
Freedom of travel was always there and still will be, of course it will still be restricted to those with the cash to do so.
What a simpering pile of bollocks.
1%er
Well-Known Member
Isn't it clear where it is heading and what plans they have for Europe?
Didn't the UK press carry Jean Claude-Juncker recent speech? They want one President and a vice President who would also be the European Finance minister (just like the position of Chancellor of the Exchequer in the UK), it is proposed that the vice-president would have the power to go into member states and make “structural reforms” to their domestic budgets
. They want one currency, a European army (they will use Trumps insecurity over NATO to help push that through and also that it will save individual States billions) and to move away from unanimity of all governments to a majority of governments to carry the vote, they already have a Central Bank and European Anthem.Now as I said above, I don't have a dog in the fight as I don't live in Europe, but I do read the European press and watch the European news and from where I'm sitting it looks like things are moving towards a European superstate. Jean Claude-Juncker talked about the "current momentum of confidence" and wants to push through and get a commitment on some of the things mentioned in the paragraph above before the UK leaves the EU in 2019, so if the UK changes its mind, they will have to accept them if they want to remain.
While I don't have a view really on leave or remain, I believe the people of Europe should make such big decisions, but I fear the people of Europe will not be asked or given the choice.
Good luck and I wish you all well whichever way your ship ends up sailing
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
I've said it before and and I'll say it again - I voted remain for many reasons, one of which was my fear over the difficulty of leaving, but having been tangentially involved in the EU's military/foreign policy ambitions/policy, in 5 years I'd probably have voted to leave regardless of the likely difficulties - in 10/15 years I don't think we'll recognise the EU, not least because Brexit has forced the structures to ram through a massive centralisation of power to ensure that the next time someone thinks about leaving it will be physically impossible...
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Wait till there's a referendum on leaving the EU - English union - then we'll see how knowledge of the state's workings affects the result
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
From the incredibly detailed sector impact assessments, a quote.
"Electricity is a fundamental part of modern society. Residential and industrial users rely on its use to ensure basic and vital needs such as lighting, heating or refrigeration are met on a daily basis"
"Electricity is a fundamental part of modern society. Residential and industrial users rely on its use to ensure basic and vital needs such as lighting, heating or refrigeration are met on a daily basis"
Terry Manners
Start from the outside and move in.
I’m glad Britain left the EU because despite the huge cost of leaving because it’s good to show the liberal London elite that they can’t have it all their own way.
Still my UK passport runs out next year and I’m going to get an Irish one instead just in case.
Still my UK passport runs out next year and I’m going to get an Irish one instead just in case.
Terry Manners
Start from the outside and move in.
That sort of smug bullshit during the campaign definitely contributed in a small way to Leave winning.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
That doesnt seem logical - if you thought it was going to get worse why not get out now?
bimble
floofy
What do you mean by the huge cost of leaving?
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
Because there's a difference between immediate, tangible dangers and more medium term theoretical dangers?
bemused
Well-Known Member
Elites tend to get their own way.
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
in terms of this so-called "divorce" the circumstances strike me as rather more of a flat-share of convenience with people you've never got along particularly well with anyway & are now arguing over who's taken more food out of the fridge & how to split the electricity bill. To the extent the marital analogy holds water then the remainer narrative of the UK being so fat, ugly & stupid that no-one else will love it & is doomed to die wretched & alone if it leaves sounds more like the controlling partner in a rather unpleasant & abusive relationship than one of wedded bliss. This holds as much between the so-called "elites" & their populaces as between UK & EU. Its true I suppose the EU has kept the peace in Europe inasamuch as Germany is now able to control Europe without having to go to the expense of all those panzer divisions ( terrible carbon footprint for one thing )
Terry Manners
Start from the outside and move in.
It’s not cheap right?
bimble
floofy
So do you just mean the 'divorce bill' ?
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Glad I'm not the only one who's ever thought Sweden and Finland together kind of resemble a great big cock and balls ..
bemused
Well-Known Member
Now he's confirmed that he'll be getting payments from the EU until he dies he is free to focus on how awful it is the UK is paying the EU.
Terry Manners
Start from the outside and move in.
No.
bimble
floofy
Um ok. I was trying to get a better idea of what you meant when you said that it’s going to cost a lot but it’s worth it to teach the ‘London liberal elite’ a lesson. I’m curious whether there’s any cost that you’d say would make it no longer worth it for that reason.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
what, you mean apart from the great economic downturn which will happen as a direct result?
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