Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[SpackleFrog]

The tories were in government at the time, and an election wasn't due for another four years under the FTPA. Obviously it was going to be tory led. That was the reason I didn't vote to leave.

And yet we had 2 general elections before 2020. One or both of which could have been won by Labour.

We could have another one before this is all done and dusted.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

The tories were front and centre of remain too. The figurehead was the prime minister at the time. Another figurehead was the chancellor of the exchequer. Another figurehead was the next prime minister.

Do you mean May? She wasn't that prominent for remain was she? Anyway, it was to me always obvious Brexit was going to be a right wing English project and was the in fact the main reason I voted remain. Then again if remain won Cameron and Osbourne would've solidified their power but who knows what might've happened at the election we were due in 2021.... Ha, Brexit is so ridiculous I'm now saying things like 'Who knows what might've happened in the future?'

 

[Pickman's model]

Asking people who claim to have the information to hand. They don't want to share it with me. I think it's because it doesn't exist.

try using an internet search engine

 

[SpackleFrog]

The biggest vote share in Doncaster central was 97, in Don valley it was 74 with 97 the most recent and in Doncaster north it was 97.

The constituencies have changed massively in that time, from 97 to 2010 there were 4 rather than 3 in the Doncaster area and now there are 3 again.

In any case, the point is that the 70% of the electorate in Doncaster who voted leave overwhelmingly then voted Labour in 2017, with vote shares of 55-60% in every constituency. Not for the Tories as was implied.

They didn't vote Labour in such big numbers in 2019 of course. Wonder why?

 

[Azrael]

[...] The predicament of Doncaster and towns like it isn't solely down to the EU though. It's still played a role of course but a much smaller one than successive governments who've managed their decline over several decades. But if that decline has occurred in direct correlation to EU membership, as has been the case for Doncaster, then of course you're going to tell the EU to fuck off at the first given opportunity. [...]

If they assume correlation's causation, sure; alternatively, they don't assume that, and have been persuaded by decades of anti-E.U. advocacy. Not just anti-E.U., either: for this to work economically, not only must the E.E.A. and its predecessors have somehow triggered Doncaster's economic decline, but leaving them must somehow trigger her renaissance. To those taking that position, I'd simply ask how?

 

[Proper Tidy]

If they assume correlation's causation, sure; alternatively, they don't assume that, and have been persuaded by decades of anti-E.U. advocacy. Not just anti-E.U., either: for this to work economically, not only must the E.E.A. and its predecessors have somehow triggered Doncaster's economic decline, but leaving them must somehow trigger her renaissance. To those taking that position, I'd simply ask how?

If you watch the video they specifically do not make this point, one fella remarking that leaving EU would have a peripheral effect.

Is the EU the direct cause of deindustrialisation in places like doncaster, no, is the EU a political body entirely about the political and economic current that results in deindustrialisation and broken communities and pliant labour, yes

 

[Dogsauce]

If you watch the video they specifically do not make this point, one fella remarking that leaving EU would have a peripheral effect.

Is the EU the direct cause of deindustrialisation in places like doncaster, no, is the EU a political body entirely about the political and economic current that results in deindustrialisation and broken communities and pliant labour, yes

except for the UK was pulling sooner and harder in that direction than most other EU members, so not sure why the EU would be singled out in this respect, nor why people taking this position would support a government formed of the sort of cunts that in their youth when they should have been out banning the bomb or whatever instead saw the harm thatcher was doing and eagerly signed up to the project. Think there was more to it than a rejection of neo-liberal economics.

 

[Proper Tidy]

except for the UK was pulling sooner and harder in that direction than most other EU members, so not sure why the EU would be singled out in this respect, nor why people taking this position would support a government formed of the sort of cunts that in their youth when they should have been out banning the bomb or whatever instead saw the harm thatcher was doing and eagerly signed up to the project. Think there was more to it than a rejection of neo-liberal economics.

One of the people in the video is tosh mcdonald, former president of ASLEF, I think in this instance it very clearly was a rejection of neoliberalism. But then I think in a lot of instances people's votes were motivated by seeing their lot deteriorate, which is a rejection of neoliberalism as well even though that won't be the words used.

 

[philosophical]

I know this is your favourite topic and I'm sorry to ruin it for you but they have now decided they're just going to put a border down the Irish sea.

Which is quite a bit of my point. The vote was to leave, not leave part of the UK out of things.
When you say 'just' it kind of makes it sound like not very much, but it is not leave, and it is a holding pattern until the UK with it's system has a land border with the EU with it's system.
There will be difficulties ahead with no suggestions as to how to overcome them, unless the holding pattern carries on which is not what was voted for despite now being called brexit.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Which is quite a bit of my point. The vote was to leave, not leave part of the UK out of things.
When you say 'just' it kind of makes it sound like not very much, but it is not leave, and it is a holding pattern until the UK with it's system has a land border with the EU with it's system.
There will be difficulties ahead with no suggestions as to how to overcome them, unless the holding pattern carries on which is not what was voted for despite now being called brexit.

It is Leave - in a very loose sense, there will not be much regulatory divergence - just not all of the UK is going to leave.

 

[Azrael]

If you watch the video they specifically do not make this point, one fella remarking that leaving EU would have a peripheral effect.

Is the EU the direct cause of deindustrialisation in places like doncaster, no, is the EU a political body entirely about the political and economic current that results in deindustrialisation and broken communities and pliant labour, yes

Leaving the E.U. by itself is economically peripheral, yes; but given the advocacy of state aid and other protectionist measures, what they appear to be arguing is for a very hard Brexit indeed.

They don't explain how those measures can begin to compensate for the economic shock of severing E.E.A. supply chains. And some of what's said just isn't defensible, particularly the claim that Doncaster was self-sufficient 40 years ago, let alone that crashing out with no deal is nothing to fear. Likewise, the person making the argument against free movement of labour himself admits that the issue's not with FoM itself, but using posted workers to undercut wages (the E.U.'s now taking measures against what it calls "social dumping").

Found it enormously frustrating because I while I agree with their diagnosis of the diseases, couldn't disagree more about the cure. Agree with everything they say about Thatcher, deindustrialization and nationalisation, but their strong arguments against her economic warfare are not only aimed at the wrong target, Vote Leave have empowered the very people who've caused the problems to begin with, and leaving in this way will accelerate the very processes they rightly condemn.

 

[Marty1]

They didn't vote tory though, they voted leave. In context of a tory party that, like labour, was overwhelmingly remain with a remain leadership. When the votes were cast in 2016 it wasn't for a 'conservative led brexit' and it wasn't driven by an idea that tory privatisation would lead to labour nationalisation.

All that has come afterwards and it's come from the political class, that is who has determined what brexit means, that it will be tory led

So what you’re saying is - many people who voted Conservative aren’t actually Tories, but leavers?

But does that make them vermin?

 

[Proper Tidy]

So what you’re saying is - many people who voted Conservative aren’t actually Tories, but leavers?

But does that make them vermin?

I was talking about people who voted leave in 2016, not voters in last GE.

Not all people who have voted tory are vermin but all tories are vermin

 

[Helen Back]

Anyone else going to avoid Made in the USA food if there's a deal with the US?

 

[Marty1]

I was talking about people who voted leave in 2016, not voters in last GE.

Not all people who have voted tory are vermin but all tories are vermin

Just as well seeing as Corbyn has endorsed John Bercow, a lifelong Tory, for a peerage.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Just as well seeing as Corbyn has endorsed John Bercow, a lifelong Tory, for a peerage.

Hang John Bercow

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Anyone else going to avoid Made in the USA food if there's a deal with the US?

Yes. . . . But isn't origin coming off packaging as well? I guess it may be the case that if meat is coming from somewhere decent it will proudly display that it isn't from the states or chlorinated etc.

 

[Marty1]

Hang John Bercow

Too late, he’s hung himself.

Fresh doubts cast over John Bercow’s peerage as bullying claims resurface

David Leakey, a former Black Rod, accuses ex-Commons Speaker of being a ‘Jekyll and Hyde character’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Baronage-Phase]

The EU produced these maps showing where Brexit customs checks will take place after Boris Johnson claimed there wouldn't be any

Boris Johnson claimed there won't be any new customs checks after Brexit, so the EU produced maps showing where they will be.

amp.businessinsider.com

So Boris declared this was not happening. Yet the EU is clear that it's happening.

Who is telling the truth?

 

[Serge Forward]

Johnson. He's not your mate, he's a cunt.

 

[two sheds]

A very naughty cunt

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Johnson. He's not your mate, he's a cunt.

A very naughty cunt

He also said..
"that if any business was asked to fill in such paperwork, they should telephone Downing Street and Johnson would "direct them to throw that form in the bin."

 

[Proper Tidy]

Are we still getting those new Brexit 50p coins?

Master of the mint, fucking harry potter shit

 

[ska invita]

Harry Potter and the Arrivist Cunt
Man couldn't master a Polo




and breathe

 

[SpineyNorman]

I was talking about people who voted leave in 2016, not voters in last GE.

Not all people who have voted tory are vermin but all tories are vermin

Marty definitely is vermin though

 

[gosub]

View attachment 196732

Master of the mint, fucking harry potter shit

Back in the day was a very significant role. Stephenson's Baroque trilogy more than Harry Potter

 

[Marty1]

View attachment 196732

Master of the mint, fucking harry potter shit

Yeah, released this Friday to commemorate Brexit.

 

[brogdale]

Yeah, released this Friday to commemorate Brexit.

View attachment 196770
View attachment 196771

Catalonians will be pleased to receive our friendship.

 

[two sheds]

as will Catatonians

 

[teqniq]

I'll raise you: