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Is Brexit actually going to happen?

Will we have a brexit?


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'look you caused that by ignoring the 2016 result'.

I'm hearing this a lot. It was a bit of a theme on last night's QT. I'm struggling with it, how is talking incessantly about something for three years ignoring it? How is revoking article 50 ignoring it? How is working out a deal (however bad that was) ignoring it?

It's never going to make people happy, even amongst the subset who actually voted for it but it hasn't been ignored. Turns out it's quite a tricky thing to do.

Didn't Johnson vote against the deal himself anyway (before changing his mind probably)? So is he one of these people too?
 
I'm hearing this a lot. It was a bit of a theme on last night's QT. I'm struggling with it, how is talking incessantly about something for three years ignoring it? How is revoking article 50 ignoring it? How is working out a deal (however bad that was) ignoring it?

It's never going to make people happy, even amongst the subset who actually voted for it but it hasn't been ignored. Turns out it's quite a tricky thing to do.

Didn't Johnson vote against the deal himself anyway (before changing his mind probably)? So is he one of these people too?
Yep, once maybe twice (?). That's part of the absolute fucking hypocrisy of the man. 'Dear PM, we'd actually have a deal if it wasn't for people like... YOU'. His version of 'let's get brexit done' is no more valid than May's 'let's get brexit done'. In terms of obstructing any legitimacy handed down by the referendum result, he's every bit as much a 'traitor' as the rest of them.
 
It’s not surprising you have nothing else of note to say. Are you really going to indulge this fantasy of riots about Brexit? Thought you had a bit more in your noggin.
You've a great void in your noggin with the piffle you've been coming out with, this guff about how brexit won't lead to any disorder, that communities will remain placid, that the consequences of Brexit anticipated in the yellowhammer documents aren't a concern for you. I haven't expressed any desire, any fantasy, for riots. You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think there won't be outbreaks of disorder flowing from a fucked up brexit
 
True, but then Brexit seems an unlikely spark.

The far right involvement that you mention also demonstrates the problem. If they are the spark then where would they gain support? I can’t think of anywhere that they wouldn’t get a hiding. Most people will not join it if they lead it.
Do you in fact know what a riot is? Such a scenario as you describe could easily be a riot - see eg Waterloo 12.9.92
 
You've a great void in your noggin with the piffle you've been coming out with, this guff about how brexit won't lead to any disorder, that communities will remain placid, that the consequences of Brexit anticipated in the yellowhammer documents aren't a concern for you. I haven't expressed any desire, any fantasy, for riots. You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think there won't be outbreaks of disorder flowing from a fucked up brexit

We were talking about a frustrated Brexit. I never mentioned crashing out. Kindly read the posts before you spaff off.
 
Do you in fact know what a riot is? Such a scenario as you describe could easily be a riot - see eg Waterloo 12.9.92

Yes I was there that day and the fash got mullered.

For that reason, riots provoked by boneheads won’t be popular.

I did say that rallies would likely have some skirmishes but that’s not what’s implied by the debate today. Certain people want us to think Britain will be in flames.

Crashing out and things run short is a whole new ball game. People start dropping due to lack of meds and we could see Farage fleeing to safety abroad yet.
 
Yes I was there that day and the fash got mullered.

For that reason, riots provoked by boneheads won’t be popular.

I did say that rallies would likely have some skirmishes but that’s not what’s implied by the debate today. Certain people want us to think Britain will be in flames.

Crashing out and things run short is a whole new ball game. People start dropping due to lack of meds and we could see Farage fleeing to safety abroad yet.
There are very few boneheads these days. So obvs any riots provoked by them unpopular. But riots provoked by syl or nf or similar could be rather better attended. And in the result of either no deal or no brexit I anticipate a degree of empowerment of the far right, in the second case from disenchanted and disenfranchised brexiters and in the first from what will be seen as a victory for them.
 
SNP saying they would support Corbyn now as interim caretaker...

But wouldn’t it make more sense for it to be ken Clarke? Let a Tory take the blame for thwarting brexit?

Although what do I know?
SNP said Corbyn or anyone who could bring consensus amongst the opposition parties.

It should be the father of the house, Ken, or the mother, Harman.

Not happening though.
 
It’s a fair question. The word “liberal” is sprayed about as an insult, but for me the issue is something like this:


There’s a great entry Keywords: A Vocabulary of Culture and Society by Raymond Williams, which butchersapron once posted a link to the pdf of. I’ll see if I can find that...

Thanks, found that really helpful. Inspired me to invest £1.99 in the Raymond Williams book.
 
Yep, once maybe twice (?). That's part of the absolute fucking hypocrisy of the man. 'Dear PM, we'd actually have a deal if it wasn't for people like... YOU'. His version of 'let's get brexit done' is no more valid than May's 'let's get brexit done'. In terms of obstructing any legitimacy handed down by the referendum result, he's every bit as much a 'traitor' as the rest of them.

That's the problem. Brexit can't just be "done." Apart from revoking A50, which would result in the "gammon" tendency fulminating for a bit (and which, anyway, seems most unlikely) any brexit outcome is going to be fraught, painful and long drawn out, very probably into decades. "Just get on with it" may be the popular mantra of Question Time, but it's nonsense.
 
That's the problem. Brexit can't just be "done." Apart from revoking A50, which would result in the "gammon" tendency fulminating for a bit (and which, anyway, seems most unlikely) any brexit outcome is going to be fraught, painful and long drawn out, very probably into decades. "Just get on with it" may be the popular mantra of Question Time, but it's nonsense.

Firstly, no-one is suggesting that Brexit can just be done. The issue is the 3 plus year delay to get the first step done.

Second, your use of ‘gammon’ reveals your pitiful misunderstanding of the nature of the class responses set in motion. A newsnight report this week, which could have been packaged a ‘Dispatch on what the northern working class scum think about it’ went up the road from me to Walsall.

What was striking, and what alleged lefts like yourself should be interested in, is that the political alienation of those in these communities - young, old, black, white, leaver and remained alike - is being embedded more deeply by the parliamentary farce. Everything they think is being confirmed back to them by it. Politicians are corrupt, the process is bent, every time they offer an opinion they are demonised or sneeringly dismisses as racists, their lives are irrelevant: nobody gives a fuck about people like us.

Pathetic dribble about boneheads, gammons and their ability to kick it off reveals just how disconnected some are from a mass feeling that has been strengthening and which Brexit has merely given focus and voice to. It is generated and continues to grow from a million grievances, which we can summarise as political alienation, peripheralisation and lost futures.

This is what the political class are terrified about unleashing. This is what we've seen in France.
 
Firstly, no-one is suggesting that Brexit can just be done. The issue is the 3 plus year delay to get the first step done.

Second, your use of ‘gammon’ reveals your pitiful misunderstanding of the nature of the class responses set in motion. A newsnight report this week, which could have been packaged a ‘Dispatch on what the northern working class scum think about it’ went up the road from me to Walsall.

What was striking, and what alleged lefts like yourself should be interested in, is that the political alienation of those in these communities - young, old, black, white, leaver and remained alike - is being embedded more deeply by the parliamentary farce. Everything they think is being confirmed back to them by it. Politicians are corrupt, the process is bent, every time they offer an opinion they are demonised or sneeringly dismisses as racists, their lives are irrelevant: nobody gives a fuck about people like us.

Pathetic dribble about boneheads, gammons and their ability to kick it off reveals just how disconnected some are from a mass feeling that has been strengthening and which Brexit has merely given focus and voice to. It is generated and continues to grow from a million grievances, which we can summarise as political alienation, peripheralisation and lost futures.

This is what the political class are terrified about unleashing. This is what we've seen in France.

Are you suggesting that "gammon" is a term that ignores why (some) working class/people in poverty folk think brexit is a good thing?
 
I love twiiter and history, I wonder if there was someeay i could combine the two in an easy way without saying fuck all (because that's dangeous).

Fucking posts by twitter proxy, jesus.
 
Firstly, no-one is suggesting that Brexit can just be done. The issue is the 3 plus year delay to get the first step done.

Second, your use of ‘gammon’ reveals your pitiful misunderstanding of the nature of the class responses set in motion. A newsnight report this week, which could have been packaged a ‘Dispatch on what the northern working class scum think about it’ went up the road from me to Walsall.

What was striking, and what alleged lefts like yourself should be interested in, is that the political alienation of those in these communities - young, old, black, white, leaver and remained alike - is being embedded more deeply by the parliamentary farce. Everything they think is being confirmed back to them by it. Politicians are corrupt, the process is bent, every time they offer an opinion they are demonised or sneeringly dismisses as racists, their lives are irrelevant: nobody gives a fuck about people like us.

Pathetic dribble about boneheads, gammons and their ability to kick it off reveals just how disconnected some are from a mass feeling that has been strengthening and which Brexit has merely given focus and voice to. It is generated and continues to grow from a million grievances, which we can summarise as political alienation, peripheralisation and lost futures.

This is what the political class are terrified about unleashing. This is what we've seen in France.

Firstly, a LOT of people ARE suggesting that brexit can "just be done." Secondly, where exactly in my "dribble" did l mention "boneheads" or "northern working-class scum"?

There you go...
 
Firstly, a LOT of people ARE suggesting that brexit can "just be done." Secondly, where exactly in my "dribble" did l mention "boneheads" or "northern working-class scum"?

There you go...

You suggested that the worst that would happen when your friends overthrow the result is ‘gammon fulminating’. I’ve pointed out that you are not just wide of the mark, you’re on a different planet.

There you go...
 
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