Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Proper Tidy]

Who else cares enough?

There are lots of people with the view that they have never had political agency or a voice except for referendum in 2016 and are aggrieved at idea that this one isolated event when they did might just be ignored, hence why leave means leave has purchase and why for many it's a point of principle divorced from the material. They may not express it this way but it's the sum of it.

 

[gentlegreen]

What’s in the video? How long is it? Why should we watch it? Do you agree or disagree with it? What is the source? You know, the usual kind of basic courtesy to fellow posters.

Many of us work in locations where playing audio clips is not appropriate or maybe even forbidden. If you want us to bother going back to the video after work, then please just tell us why.

This is a general plea to all. I’m not singling you out. A few brief words is all that’s needed.

“Here’s a 15 min video by x about y. It really gets to the point, although it is probably wrong about z, but I’ll let them off because it’s funny/pithy/well lit”. That sort of thing.

It basically explains how it might happen. I find it unsettling, but can offer nothing on the obscure workings of the archaic UK parliamentary system which appears to be full of cynically exploitable loopholes...

 

[SpackleFrog]

Agreed.
But there are plenty of liberals saying that withdrawal from the EU is good for everybody.

Well, actually they say it would be good for Britain. National rather than universal interest.

 

[Mr Moose]

Do you honestly think the only people in Britain who really care about Brexit are white nationalists? Because if you do, you're even denser than I thought.

You have to see things in context. Phone hacking, expenses scandals, economic crisis, austerity, the Lib Dems promising free education and then doing the opposite. Now on top of all that the political class have held a referendum, told everyone it mattered and want to find a way to forget it happened. Not every one who is angry about that is a white supremacist?

Not that some of those things could generate a riot (phone hacking!) the idea at question is that Brexit in itself could.

If there is a diverse uprising about austerity, that is not about Brexit.

Get over your ridiculous fantasies about Brexit unifying the working class.

 

[butchersapron]

It’s a fair question. The word “liberal” is sprayed about as an insult, but for me the issue is something like this:


There’s a great entry Keywords: A Vocabulary of Culture and Society by Raymond Williams, which butchersapron once posted a link to the pdf of. I’ll see if I can find that...

Her's the updated version (2015). I'll screen shot the entry in a sec.



edit: of course, the point of the book was to then go and look up the other terms and concepts included in the entry...

 

[SpackleFrog]

It basically explains how it might happen. I find it unsettling, but can offer nothing on the obscure workings of the archaic UK parliamentary system which appears to be full of cynically exploitable loopholes...

What might happen?

Not that some of those things could generate a riot (phone hacking!) the idea at question is that Brexit in itself could.

If there is a diverse uprising about austerity, that is not about Brexit.

Get over your ridiculous fantasies about Brexit unifying the working class.

Firstly, I haven't at any time suggested that Brexit can unify the working class. Either find a post where I have or retract this comment please.

Secondly, riots never have one single underlying cause. They happen because of conditions in society in general.

In 2011 the Mark Duggan shooting sparked riots. But that was the spark, it wasn't the cause. No one is suggesting that Brexit can cause riots but it is possible it could act as a spark for riots.

 

[brogdale]

There are lots of people with the view that they have never had political agency or a voice except for referendum in 2016 and are aggrieved at idea that this one isolated event when they did might just be ignored, hence why leave means leave has purchase and why for many it's a point of principle divorced from the material. They may not express it this way but it's the sum of it.

Yes, that's obviously the perception held by many.
Reality is that their 'voice'/'agency' was permitted by the right party of capital via a single expression of direct democracy set in the context of a bourgeois state governed by a party system of Parliamentary representative democracy.

 

[brogdale]

Well, actually they say it would be good for Britain. National rather than universal interest.

You've just reminded me of the old "where do mansplainers get their water from?" joke!

 

[Mr Moose]

There are lots of people with the view that they have never had political agency or a voice except for referendum in 2016 and are aggrieved at idea that this one isolated event when they did might just be ignored, hence why leave means leave has purchase and why for many it's a point of principle divorced from the material. They may not express it this way but it's the sum of it.

Sure and they may care enough to vote Brexit Party, but riot? That will take a lot and there is a lot, but that isn’t Brexit.

 

[Mr Moose]

What might happen?


Firstly, I haven't at any time suggested that Brexit can unify the working class. Either find a post where I have or retract this comment please.

Secondly, riots never have one single underlying cause. They happen because of conditions in society in general.

In 2011 the Mark Duggan shooting sparked riots. But that was the spark, it wasn't the cause. No one is suggesting that Brexit can cause riots but it is possible it could act as a spark for riots.

No, the Times is suggesting a minister thinks that not delivering Brexit May cause riots.

 

[Poi E]

Coked up cashed up suburban middle class on the rampage.

 

[chilango]

Can you give an example? Somewhere a largely white nationalist themed (if Brexit is to be the cause) riot could gain wider support?

If people riot together they will be putting aside Brexit and it will be about prices, fuel, rents, policing etc. It won’t be about membership of an economic community of nations.

The second part of your post answers the first imo.

 

[Pickman's model]

You've just reminded me of the old "where do mansplainers get their water from?" joke!

Something about taking the piss no doubt

 

[Pickman's model]

The second part of your post answers the first imo.

It's wicked to mock the afflicted

 

[belboid]

Fascinating. I always thought Snow was a journalist during the mod 80’s with the miners strike, mass unemployment, racism and the class war unleashed by Thatcher.

It was a period when class war, rather than a tiresome spat between the admin section of the ruling class, raged. Bubble wanker

to be fair to him, he was in Vietnam and Washington at that time.

 

[krink]

Something about taking the piss no doubt

from a 'well, actually...'

 

[brogdale]

Something about taking the piss no doubt

Well, actually

 

[Pickman's model]

Well, actually

I think the punchline could be improved

 

[krink]

Well, actually

sorry i nicked your line

 

[SpackleFrog]

I think the punchline could be improved

Well, actually, it's a very clever punchline if you think about it...

 

[Mr Moose]

It's wicked to mock the afflicted

But then it’s not about Brexit.

Are you really in such fevered form you think riots about Brexit are likely?

 

[Mr Moose]

Well, actually, it's a very clever punchline if you think about it...

Actually I’m still having a good laugh about expenses and phone hacking leading to riots. Maybe Hugh Grant could kick them off for you.

 

[chilango]

But then it’s not about Brexit.

Are you really in such fevered form you think riots about Brexit are likely?

See the point someone made above about the difference between triggers and causes.

I think its worth remembering at this point that even the Brexit vote wasn't (just) about Brexit.

The vote to Leave is a symptom of other causes.

Just as the vote to remain is not (just) about wanting to stay in the EU but, again, reflects wider concerns.

Brexit is just a point de capiton for all of these.

 

[Mr Moose]

See the point someone made above about the difference between triggers and causes.

I think its worth remembering at this point that even the Brexit vote wasn't (just) about Brexit.

The vote to Leave is a symptom of other causes.

Just as the vote to remain is not (just) about wanting to stay in the EU but, again, reflects wider concerns.

Brexit is just a point de capiton for all of these.

If Farage’s long march was anything to go by it is the spark for very few people.

 

[brogdale]

See the point someone made above about the difference between triggers and causes.

I think its worth remembering at this point that even the Brexit vote wasn't (just) about Brexit.

The vote to Leave is a symptom of other causes.

Just as the vote to remain is not (just) about wanting to stay in the EU but, again, reflects wider concerns.

Brexit is just a point de capiton for all of these.

Absolutely, but it's also worth remembering that the right party of capital regards the Brexit vote as nothing other than a vote for their Brexit. Plenty of scope for unrest when that dawns on folk.

 

[Pickman's model]

But then it’s not about Brexit.

Are you really in such fevered form you think riots about Brexit are likely?

Brexit and the effects of brexit, yes. There have been riots about all manner of things, prices of theatre tickets, performances of the rite of spring, at the first performance of playboy of the western world so it's entirely feasible for there to be Brexit-based disorder.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Yes, that's obviously the perception held by many.
Reality is that their 'voice'/'agency' was permitted by the right party of capital via a single expression of direct democracy set in the context of a bourgeois state governed by a party system of Parliamentary representative democracy.

Yeah absolutely. But that perception is what counts (and is quite toxic)

 

[Proper Tidy]

Sure and they may care enough to vote Brexit Party, but riot? That will take a lot and there is a lot, but that isn’t Brexit.

Well I wouldn't imagine any hypothetical riot would have one isolated cause, it will be a lot of things reaching a critical mass, including the feeling of being excluded from having any control/agency. The far right inroads into this field should give some indication of its potential (not that it's likely but that it's possible)

 

[Ranbay]

anyone seen this?

it's a video from the internets.

it;s timed for the bit about the Woman who sells crabs.

 

[Ranbay]