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Is Brexit actually going to happen?

Will we have a brexit?


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The history in the US of voting rights/literacy test not enough to tell you what's wrong with this idea?

Read the following passage:

Διαφέρομεν δὲ καὶ ταῖς τῶν πολεμικῶνμελέταις τῶν ἐναντίων τοῖσδε. τήν τε γὰρπόλιν κοινὴν παρέχομεν, καὶ οὐκ ἔστιν ὅτεξενηλασίαις ἀπείργομέν τινα ἢ μαθήματοςἢ θεάματος, ὃ μὴ κρυφθὲν ἄν τις τῶνπολεμίων ἰδὼν ὠφεληθείη, πιστεύοντες οὐταῖς παρασκευαῖς τὸ πλέον καὶ ἀπάταις ἢ τῷ ἀφ' ἡμῶν αὐτῶν ἐς τὰ ἔργα εὐψύχῳ· καὶ ἐν ταῖς παιδείαις οἱ μὲν ἐπιπόνῳ ἀσκήσειεὐθὺς νέοι ὄντες τὸ ἀνδρεῖον μετέρχονται,ἡμεῖς δὲ ἀνειμένως διαιτώμενοι οὐδὲν ἧσσονἐπὶ τοὺς ἰσοπαλεῖς κινδύνους χωροῦμεν.

That’s a massive issue and why this should not be used for elections to the legislature. Just to functional referenda. I don’t read Greek so wouldn’t be able to vote in a technical referendum about Greek language. Which is probably how it should be.


I think this mornings thought experiment shows the problems of referenda.
 
I was at a funeral a couple of weeks ago where people were taking selfies (not at the graveside: at the reception, but still, it made me feel old and adrift without a compass on a sea of modern morality).
no, you have, and can use a compass, moral or otherwise.....the others will just keep going til their satnav tells them to stop:(
 
The problem with this sort of stuff is that most people don’t read it & yet they still need affordable housing. So what to do?
What sort of stuff? An analysis of the anti-democratic nature of liberalism? I don't see why people reading that thread or not makes any different to fighting for affordable housing.
 
What sort of stuff?
The political theory in your thread in the link. You know perfectly well what I am getting at. I know plenty of people spending half their income on housing. I know for a fact they would not be interested in reading the stuff in your thread. Not because they are stupid but because they could not see the slightest relevance of it to their lives. So can you answer my question. How do we fix the housing crisis in the UK?
 
The political theory in your thread in the link. You know perfectly well what I am getting at. I know plenty of people spending half their income on housing. I know for a fact they would not be interested in reading the stuff in your thread. Not because they are stupid but because they could not see the slightest relevance of it to their lives. So can you answer my question. How do we fix the housing crisis in the UK?
This is a complete non sequiter. How does people having an interest in political theory or not make it more or less difficult to fix the housing crisis in the UK? There's no connection there, unless you have some sort of nonsense vanguardism in mind, that the people need to be led to the 'correct' way of thinking.
 
The political theory in your thread in the link. You know perfectly well what I am getting at. I know plenty of people spending half their income on housing. I know for a fact they would not be interested in reading the stuff in your thread. Not because they are stupid but because they could not see the slightest relevance of it to their lives. So can you answer my question. How do we fix the housing crisis in the UK?
I don't get this. Why does redsquirrel starting a thread discussing something (anything) on a bulletin board mean anything other than he started a discussion on a bulletin board?
 
This is a complete non sequiter. How does people having an interest in political theory or not make it more or less difficult to fix the housing crisis in the UK? There's no connection there, unless you have some sort of nonsense vanguardism in mind, that the people need to be led to the 'correct' way of thinking.
You appear to be saying that your interest in the type of politics that you post about has no relevance at all to what is happening in the UK right now. Is that correct? I was under the impression that what you post on this thread had some sort of relevance to the subject of the thread & that you had some sort of idea of the political direction you would like to see the UK taking?
 
You appear to be saying that your interest in the type of politics that you post about has no relevance at all to what is happening in the UK right now. Is that correct?
No

Because he linked to it on this thread suggesting it had some sort of relevance to this thread.
It does. Have you not read the last couple of pages with A380 arguing the type of rubbish outlined on the thread I linked?
 
Because he linked to it on this thread suggesting it had some sort of relevance to this thread.
It does have relevance to the discussion on this thread. It was directly related to the suggestion that people be tested for competence before being allowed to vote in referendums such as the Brexit referendum. So it was relevant to the discussion occurring at the time.

I'm still not very sure what your thought process are. But I'll explain where I am on this:

I don't think there should be restrictions on voting of the sort discussed. I think that's a terrible, elitist step (further) away from democracy and egalitarianism.

I think it is possible for me and anyone else to say so and still be appalled by the inadequate housing in these islands.

I don't think having a say on the former means I therefore have to come up with a solution to the latter, but I'm happy to discuss my ideas about housing should it come up. I've been a long term supporter of various actions on housing, and will continue to have views on it.
 
Do you think that lances the brexit boil though? I don't. I think lots of people, including most young people, will be extremely pissed off by the end of free movement.

Most people are not well off middle class liberals who live in big cities or nice second homes in the countryside. Do you really think public opinion wants more immigration let alone freedom of movement? It is this kind of detachment from reality and the rest of the country that, in part, lost you the referendum.
 
^ I don't see why being an 'internationalist' is a bad thing. I cherish the ability to travel and work throughout Europe. I'm also happy for the same freedom to be extended to my European fam. To see it as exploitative is very narrow minded.

Only someone who is financially comfortable could ever say something like this. Only backs up my view that supporting the EU and a certain type of internationalism is a middle class cause that is actively hostile to working class and struggling people.
 
It does have relevance to the discussion on this thread. It was directly related to the suggestion that people be tested for competence before being allowed to vote in referendums such as the Brexit referendum. So it was relevant to the discussion occurring at the time.

I'm still not very sure what your thought process are. But I'll explain where I am on this:

I don't think there should be restrictions on voting of the sort discussed. I think that's a terrible, elitist step (further) away from democracy and egalitarianism.

I think it is possible for me and anyone else to say so and still be appalled by the inadequate housing in these islands.

I don't think having a say on the former means I therefore have to come up with a solution to the latter, but I'm happy to discuss my ideas about housing should it come up. I've been a long term supporter of various actions on housing, and will continue to have views on it.
What I was trying to get across was that plenty of links to left wing theory are posted on this & other threads. There is plenty of slagging of posters who are perceived to be centrist Blairite neoliberals etc. None of this seems offer an achievable solution to the problems facing the UK today. If I am missing something here then probably the vast majority of ordinary people at the lower end of the income scale are missing it too because they do not read the sort of political stuff that is regularly posted in links on here.

There will never be true democracy. Democracy by it’s nature is always a compromise however you do it. So let’s stick with the democracy we have in the UK which we will have to make work in our favour because we live here. If anybody here does not think the best way forward is to try to get a majority Corbyn lead Labour government elected sometime in the next few yrs then can they suggest a better alternative that is actually achievable?
 
dude the 'no head measuring before voting rights' is a fairly tame position I'd have thought, certainly its sticking with what we have rather than my solution:
 
What I was trying to get across was that plenty of links to left wing theory are posted on this & other threads.
I don't think it's "leftwing theory" to say that it's a bad idea to introduce competency tests before people are allowed to vote. And I don't think it's obscure or academic-y to say the suggestion comes from a worryingly anti-democratic tendency. Quite the reverse, in fact!
 
I don't think it's "leftwing theory" to say that it's a bad idea to introduce competency tests before people are allowed to vote. And I don't think it's obscure or academic-y to say the suggestion comes from a worryingly anti-democratic tendency. Quite the reverse, in fact!
It's not like there's a widespread contempt of politicians nor that part of the reason why many people voted to leave the EU was because they felt that it was some remote, undemocratic body.
 
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