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Is Brexit actually going to happen?

Will we have a brexit?

  • Yes - A fully independant Britain making its own way in the world (apart from scotland).

    Votes: 66 18.2%

  • A Semi-Detached Norway type deal

    Votes: 111 30.7%

  • No - 2nd referendum and/or face saving fudge to let us slink back in feeling a bit fucking stupid

    Votes: 185 51.1%
  • Total voters
    362
Poi E said:
Won't do a thing to touch the slum landlord/people trafficking vermin.
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That wouldn't be the intention. The intention would be to be seen to be tackling the immigration problem. Tie the Daily Heil up in knots but they've prioritised the evil immigrant now.
 
This is worth repeating
butchersapron said:
wtf happened here - it's not like there's a shortfall of dull liberal pro-eu commentary with dull neo-liberal assumptions out there.
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After persuading the ROI to leave, carrying ID cards, the joys of 'free' movement. Christ, whatever happens, what follows will be a massive attack on workers. Corbyn won't save you. Does anyone have a picture of a post '19 landscape in which the tories will continue to wage their war?
 
littlebabyjesus said:
You may say fuck that, but we need to get a proper grip on our borders, and if that means doing something most of the world already does, then it's a price worth paying. We'll all get used to it after a while. It will be fine. Those who are here legally will have nothing to fear.
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I hope to christ this is satire, but I fear it's not.
 
SpookyFrank said:
Value them enough to take their money off them in taxes but not enough to let them vote in the referendum. Classy.
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If they had been allowed to vote, and remain had won, by less than the estimated number of foreign nationals...I think the number of unpleasant incidents would have been higher than than it was
 
gosub said:
If they had been allowed to vote, and remain had won, by less than the estimated number of foreign nationals...I think the number of unpleasant incidents would have been higher than than it was
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What about denying British citizens living, or 'domiciled' overseas a vote then?
 
SpookyFrank said:
Value them enough to take their money off them in taxes but not enough to let them vote in the referendum. Classy.
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EU nationals can't vote in the general election either. I don't think the concept that only citizens can vote for their government is that controversial.
 
To my surprise that Telegraph article was very readable, and even seems to contain some actual analysis. Quite a good/clear outline of the Hard Brexit position even.

But Ambrose Evans-Pritchard's record more generally is of being a raving lunatic -- which made me pretty surprised at how non-raving that article looked :confused:

But his record still leads me to question his factual reliability :hmm:
 
SaskiaJayne said:
Good question. For exploited eastern European workers about 2004 I think. For Brits who can barely afford their rent it never started. For middle class Brits enjoying their southern European playgrounds it has always been there & won’t end with brexit. I think thats what you were alluding to, yes?
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I was in the office last week ( this is in London and it's regular guys on working class wages) Brexit came up. They all to a man opposed Brexit. Saw the debate about Brexit being about immigration. Didn't see Brexit as in there economic interests as well.

These are average working class people. They also saw end of free movement in EU negatively.

It's my common experience in London. Majority of working class people I know were remainers.

One Afro Carribbean friend , who is a postman, told me he was remain as people were going on about East European immigrants here in same way as they went on about his Fathers generation. The Windrush generation.
 
hot air baboon said:
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I find the comparison made wrong. European colonisation of other countries was brutal and violent. It was also racist. To compare opposition to EU with opposition to racist colonial subjection of people in other lands is imo distasteful.

There was nothing subtle about Europeans colonisation in Africa, Asia or the Middle East. It was not an "invisible administration" shaping people's lives in every detail. It was done with brute force.
 
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Gramsci said:
I was in the office last week ( this is in London and it's regular guys on working class wages) Brexit came up. They all to a man opposed Brexit. Saw the debate about Brexit being about immigration. Didn't see Brexit as in there economic interests as well.

These are average working class people. They also saw end of free movement in EU negatively.

It's my common experience in London. Majority of working class people I know were remainers.

One Afro Carribbean friend , who is a postman, told me he was remain as people were going on about East European immigrants here in same way as they went on about his Fathers generation. The Windrush generation.
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It's depressing that on here even, talking in internationalist rather than nationalist terms has you marked as some kind of elitist apologist for neoliberalism. Everything said here about Eastern Europeans being 'forced' to come here out of economic necessity by the evil system could have been said of the Windrush generation, and with balls on.
 
Gramsci said:
I find the comparison made wrong. European colonisation of other countries was brutal and violent. It was also racist. To compare opposition to EU with opposition to racist colonial subjection of people in other lands is imo distasteful.

There was nothing subtle about Europeans colonisation in Africa, Asia or the Middle East. It was not an "invisible administration" shaping people's lives in every detail. It was done with brute force.
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Nothing subtle about Greece. But don't worry they're working on the brute force.



littlebabyjesus said:
It's depressing that on here even, talking in internationalist rather than nationalist terms has you marked as some kind of elitist apologist for neoliberalism. Everything said here about Eastern Europeans being 'forced' to come here out of economic necessity by the evil system could have been said of the Windrush generation, and with balls on.
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1) Yes, you could say the same about the Windrush generation. What don't you understand about economic migration?
2) Wind your neck in you sanctimonious git - you're no more of an internationalist than my racist uncle.
 
^ I don't see why being an 'internationalist' is a bad thing. I cherish the ability to travel and work throughout Europe. I'm also happy for the same freedom to be extended to my European fam. To see it as exploitative is very narrow minded.
 
SpackleFrog said:
1) Yes, you could say the same about the Windrush generation. What don't you understand about economic migration?
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If 'freedom of movement' is merely a tool of capital, then within the confines of the realistic, what would you prefer to see instead? An end to migration?
 
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