In principle - would you accept work in China?

[teuchter]

I am curious how many people would consider the ethical/moral dimension of working in (or with) China - and whether this has changed substantially in the past few years, perhaps especially in the context of what has happened in Hong Kong and now Russia/Ukraine.

For some years, I've known quite a few people who have done work in China - either moving there long-term ish, or living there for a shorter period, or doing something that involves regular visits.

They tend to work for western companies who have set up offices/branches in China. Many of them work for UK universities.

5 or 10 years ago, if someone told me they were considering some work in China, I'd have thought, interesting opportunity, wonder if I'd fancy doing that for a bit. But now I find myself wondering if I'd refuse to do it because it wouldn't feel right.

Not sure to what extent that's because what China is, has actually changed in the past decade or so, or whether it's just that I'm a little less ignorant than I was.

Especially in the university sector, I increasingly find it strange that the ethics of it just don't seem to get discussed much. It looks to me like many universities have got themselves so deeply entrenched that they can't afford to think about it too deeply.

 

[a_chap]

Accept work in China? No.

Much too far to commute.

 

[Serge Forward]

I got offered work in China. Turned it down.

 

[Orang Utan]

No, but I wouldn’t ‘accept’ work anywhere else but where I am right now

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Obviously it would depend on a lot of things but in terms of what I think the point of the question is, I wouldn't in general principle turn down any work in China because I thought it was endorsing or supporting the actions of the state. I'd take a view of the specifics obviously but I wouldn't see it as China=definitively unethical or anything like that.

 

[krtek a houby]

As it currently is, no.

But China is the people rather than the dreadful Xi regime. One day he'll be dismantled.

 

[bellaozzydog]

Realises its a teuchter thread and withdraws on ethical and moral grounds

 

[LeytonCatLady]

No, I wouldn't want to leave London/UK anyway. And if I did, it would have to be a country without so many restrictions.

 

[Elpenor]

Never had any desire to work overseas and my line of work means I’m not qualified to anyway

 

[teuchter]

I'm not interested in answers about the practicality or desirability of working overseas - that's not what this thread is about.

The question is purely about whether there would be an ethical/moral aspect to your decision-making, assuming it's something you'd not rule out for other reasons.

 

[Elpenor]

Perhaps you could have been more specific in the OP then

 

[teuchter]

Perhaps you could have been more specific in the OP then

I think I was perfectly specific in the OP. It is there in the first sentence.

 

[weltweit]

I worked for 6 months in Germany. I tried to find more work to stay at least 2 years but it wasn't to be. I think the same question applies to China, are you prepared to be abroad and away from family and friends for the period?

When I was younger with fewer ties to the UK, I was prepared, now I am less sure.

 

[skyscraper101]

It depends where I'm located, who it's for and how much they'll pay me.

If it's for say a UK or American company based in Hong Kong then I'd give it some consideration. But if it's for some arm of the CCP or some firm that very clearly is in league with the CCP then no.

 

[Spymaster]

I'd like to say no from an ethical standpoint but the truth is, it would depend. I've worked with Chinese companies in Europe and they've been disgustingly racist and sexist but I didn't say no to their money. Same with Dubai outfits. I'm fortunate enough now to not have to take contracts purely for the money and would like to think I'd turn down work in countries whose regimes I despise. Having said that, if it was a short job and the money seriously compelling, I'd probably consider it.

 

[teuchter]

I worked for 6 months in Germany. I tried to find more work to stay at least 2 years but it wasn't to be. I think the same question applies to China, are you prepared to be abroad and away from family and friends for the period?

When I was younger with fewer ties to the UK, I was prepared, now I am less sure.

Thank you for contributing to the stream of entirely irrelevant answers. It would seem that a large proportion of urban75 posters are unable to read and respond to a specific question. Therefore perhaps there would be an ethical benefit in them co-operating with the Chinese state, as they would likely perform unintentional acts of sabotage that would undermine the system.

 

[krtek a houby]

It would seem that a large proportion of urban75 posters are unable to read and respond to a specific question.

Wait. You switched to your superior persona?

Earlier today

It's one of those things that's popular with people like students, who savour the opportunity to feel superior to unsophisticated "ordinary people" who enjoy it in a non ironic way.

 

[MickiQ]

In principle - Yes
In reality - No
I'm too old, too settled in my ways and too happy where I am to consider such a thing.

 

[Yossarian]

After the crushing of Hong Kong's freedoms I wouldn't even change planes in mainland China, let alone work there

 

[Orang Utan]

I'm not interested in answers about the practicality or desirability of working overseas - that's not what this thread is about.

We’ll see about that. It’s not up to you

 

[strung out]

I'm not interested in answers about the practicality or desirability of working overseas - that's not what this thread is about.

The question is purely about whether there would be an ethical/moral aspect to your decision-making, assuming it's something you'd not rule out for other reasons.

Maybe.

The uni I work at has some partnerships with Chinese universities, with my job directly related to supporting overseas students who either come to the UK to study, or have their degrees delivered, accredited and resourced in their country of origin by my employer.

Most of my employer's overseas work is in Malaysia, Vietnam and the Maldives, but there's a growing desire to expand into China, because many universities are at the point now where home students don't provide enough money to keep them in business, and attracting overseas students or partnering with overseas universities is far more lucrative.

My job involves licensing resources for students in China and other countries to use, and we are regularly in touch with staff (sometimes our own, sometimes employed by Chinese institutions) to support the delivery of those resources.

Given I already do all of those things at the moment, there's not a lot of difference whether I do that here or in China, but it does raise moral issues that I don't know the answer to. It's an easy get-out to say that the provision of education should overcome any moral qualms, but we are on occasion asked to make sure our resources comply with Chinese censorship laws, which makes it even more murky.

My wife is mixed British/Chinese-Malaysian, which means we have a cultural link to the country through my mother in-law's family, who can trace their heritage back to Hakka villages in southern China, which would probably tip the balance for me in favour of being willing to live out there, if only because of wanting to understand and experience my wife's cultural heritage.

My in-laws did actually live in Shanghai for a while, but that was because my English father in-law worked for BP and got posted there, which probably raises moral issues all of its own around the oil industry

 

[mwgdrwg]

Why would you work in a country which locks away those in need on disease infected floating death-traps?

 

[JimW]

I live here but currently all my work is for publishers out of Taiwan.

 

[strung out]

Why would you work in a country which locks away those in need on disease infected floating death-traps?

Assuming you're talking about Britain, probably because most people on these boards live here, grew up here and probably don't want to opt out of working here (except for the increasing number of workshy retirees of course )

 

[Winot]

I have worked ‘with’ China for years, in the sense of carrying out professional services for Chinese companies/universities in Europe, and helping clients obtain legal rights in China.

The HK/Uyghur situation has made me increasingly uncomfortable over the last few years. It would be awkward to stop work, which I realise is a complete cop-out. I suppose there is a slight difference between working with private companies and working with the Chinese state. However it’s probably equivalent to working with German companies in 1938 post-Anschluss.

 

[Pickman's model]

Thank you for contributing to the stream of entirely irrelevant answers. It would seem that a large proportion of urban75 posters are unable to read and respond to a specific question. Therefore perhaps there would be an ethical benefit in them co-operating with the Chinese state, as they would likely perform unintentional acts of sabotage that would undermine the system.

There are about 58,000 urban members. Let's say for the sake of argument 20,000 of them are urban posters. I'd say a great proportion of 20,000 is 10,000+/20,000, not 11/20,000. You puffed up windbag

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

It depends....

TBH, I probably wouldn't because I think China is going to unwind dramatically in the next five years and I wouldn't want to be there when it does.

 

[mwgdrwg]

Assuming you're talking about Britain, probably because most people on these boards live here, grew up here and probably don't want to opt out of working here (except for the increasing number of workshy retirees of course )

I'd fucking love to opt out of working here!

 

[mwgdrwg]

But I gotta eat!

 

[Pickman's model]

Assuming you're talking about Britain, probably because most people on these boards live here, grew up here and probably don't want to opt out of working here (except for the increasing number of workshy retirees of course )

We all want to opt out of working. Just most of us can't currently afford it