hi, just want to say that ive read many of your posts today about the capitalist pig US and its terrible slaughter of innocent afganis, and yes we Americans are bad indecent people, in need of a socialist overhaul as many of you no doubt think. i just want to say.. GO FUCK yourselves. my country did not declare war on them, they declared war on us by killing 6000 people. 'yes', you say, 'but its the americans fault that the arabs are so angry'. sure, and its our fault that theres fighting in mid east, fighting in southeast asia, fighting in the caucus, fighting in central africa, etc. give me a break. who are you to sit here and say shit about my country. we were there when europe was in flames of nazism, we were there when you were next to the iron curtain. we give over 25% of funds for the UN, aid which in many cases goes to mid east countries that hate us. OH, they say, 'its your capitalistic and opportunistic ways that bred the hatred' grow up! look at S Korea. in the 1950s it was just as poor and unstable as many coutnries in mid east are. look at it today. look at thailand. look at japan. look at s africa. look at israel. do you think its a coincidence these countries are rich and evolving? i look outside and i see the WTC rubble and i have fire running thru my veins. any other country, and you would see blood run 10 min after the attacks, but we patiently and fairly asked those taliban fucks to hand him over, not for execution, but for a trial, in a court of law. we gave fair warning, and they chose to ignore us. so to all of you who say "oh no, stop this terrible anti-arab war!" go fuck yourself, when they blow up your relatives and friends, then maybe you will understand
I'm new here from NYC, thoughts about the "War"
- Thread starter tribal
- Start date
PatelsCornerShop
watching you watching me
Boo hoo.
Diddums.
Diddums.
K
kissthecat
Guest
I'm deeply hurt tribal. I can feel fire in my veins... ouch.. ouch
you people are sick fucks. there is no humanity in you. my close friends were burned alive in those towers, and you sit here and rant about your ideological viewpoints and your distaste for my country, and how it is our fault that this is happening. well guess what assholes, we will win this fight, just like we won all others years back, and saved your and France's ass. scum like you are subhuman. maybe you should join the al qaida
Tribal
We try to talk rather here on the issue of capitalism than "capitalist pigs".
We don't moralise, we don't devide glob into countries, nations, races, religions (for us they are very much abstract concepts).
We think globally, in international & class terms.
I'm not sure exactly, but level of your conscious is on the level of the pre-tribal people (before tribal communism arrived).
Take it easy, we are discussing politics here - not bollocks.
We try to talk rather here on the issue of capitalism than "capitalist pigs".
We don't moralise, we don't devide glob into countries, nations, races, religions (for us they are very much abstract concepts).
We think globally, in international & class terms.
I'm not sure exactly, but level of your conscious is on the level of the pre-tribal people (before tribal communism arrived).
Take it easy, we are discussing politics here - not bollocks.
PatelsCornerShop
watching you watching me
Nomoney.
Some people have some good advice on this board. They say not to feed the 'Troll' or not to bother acting rationally towards someone who is here only to waste our time.
It's just good advice. Not a rule or anything like that.
Some people have some good advice on this board. They say not to feed the 'Troll' or not to bother acting rationally towards someone who is here only to waste our time.
It's just good advice. Not a rule or anything like that.
Walter Mitty
Seasoned lizard hunter
But it is America's fault theres fighting in the middle east. You've been carrying out genocide against Iraq for the past 10 years , funded the Israeli occupation of Palestine and supported dictatorships in country's like Saudi Arabi.
PatelsCornerShop
watching you watching me
Yes BigDave.
And now we'll get into a long thread about a subject that has been argued thousands of times before, which is the whole point of starting off this thread. I don't think it has been started for any other reason.
And now we'll get into a long thread about a subject that has been argued thousands of times before, which is the whole point of starting off this thread. I don't think it has been started for any other reason.
J
johnwisehammer
Guest
Tribal:
you may be upset - that's fine. You may also be surprised to hear that you are not the only one on this board to know people who were attacked and/or killed.
Please do try and read some of the threads on the war - closely. Nobody's happy that innocent people got killed - and that's exactly why few people are enthusiastic about bombing innocent people in Afghanistan.
You make some elementary mistakes: for instance, Afghans are not Arabs; we are not all British; nobody here is likely to join al-Qaeda; the Afghan people is not responsible for its own government, let alone bin Laden; the Afghan government offered to hand over OBL last week but was rejected; Americans do not have a monopoly on suffering.
I'm not trying to be offensive, but if you understood the issues a bit better, you might see that many people who criticise this war - and the way it is being fought - do so not because they are inhumane - but because they are humane.
you may be upset - that's fine. You may also be surprised to hear that you are not the only one on this board to know people who were attacked and/or killed.
Please do try and read some of the threads on the war - closely. Nobody's happy that innocent people got killed - and that's exactly why few people are enthusiastic about bombing innocent people in Afghanistan.
You make some elementary mistakes: for instance, Afghans are not Arabs; we are not all British; nobody here is likely to join al-Qaeda; the Afghan people is not responsible for its own government, let alone bin Laden; the Afghan government offered to hand over OBL last week but was rejected; Americans do not have a monopoly on suffering.
I'm not trying to be offensive, but if you understood the issues a bit better, you might see that many people who criticise this war - and the way it is being fought - do so not because they are inhumane - but because they are humane.
haha, thats classic, i see, so i dont understand the issues. i dont understand that by supporting Israel (the only real democracy in the region), we get all the arab hate thrown at us. you people are so cynical. you hover at your own distorted perception of moral supremacy. lets face it, you think you know more and are morally superior than people who live in the states. you are more 'advanced'. so when we get slaughtered, and we fight back, its wrong for us to do. let me ask you, what would you do in this case. tomorrow, a huge metropolitan complex in downtown london gets blown to bits, and thousands of brits die. many of whom are your close friends, what would you do? would you try to negotiate? appease? turn the other cheek? do what you want, but we dont follow this bullshit. no one, contrary to your preposterous claims, is killing and slaughtering innocent afghanis. yes, afghans in the taliban will be killed, and yes thats a shame, but we gave a fair warning, no more bullshit, bin laden is a terrorist no matter which way you look at it, and he needs to be brought to justice. as for the issue of israel, im not even going to start, many people on this site seem so far left wing and extreme, that it sickens me how slanted and biased their view is. to all of you who say that sept 11 was a shame, but we deserved it, go fuck yourselves, the everyday hardworking american people, who try to make this country great, to raise their kids in peace, to achieve the american dream, they did not deserve it, no matter how much you think the arabs have suffered. they are destitute due to their own half assed fundamental ideology. look at anywhere else in the world, at the emerging economies, which embraced our style of capitalism, and you see stability and prosperity. read Thomas Friedman's book "the lexus and the olive tree" and you will understand how and why the system works, before beating your fists and yelling accusations at us. gain some information first. im wasting my time here, the lack of intellect here sickens me. 'cheers'
J
J-Bob
Guest
I like the last bit "the lack of intellect sickens me" !!
It seems pointless replying to you, as it is clear you haven't even read through the many detailed arguments that have been posted up on this site, but a few elementry points should perhaps be raised.
Firstly, this is a British based site - that doesn't mean that it's exclusively British (as JWH said), and in fact, there are a number of US based regulars who post here.
Secondly, I've been coming here for quite some time and the views you say have been propagated here simply haven't occurred. Yes, it has been pointed out that the US' interventionist foreign policy is bound to upset nations and citizens of the countries that the US tramples over in order to utilise their natural resources for their own ends (numerous countries in the Middle East, South America and Asia( spring to mind). Yes, this is not in isolation, Britain is just, if not more complicit in this. These points are not unreasonable to make prior to or post the tragic events of September 11.
To be brief, the paradigm is this; neither is it unreasonable to mention the 200,000 Iraqi civillians that were killed during the carpet bombing of Baghdad, or the 500 Iraqi children that die every month (due to UN sanctions).
For your information (and I would have thought with your superior intellect you would have known this), mainland Britain has been bombed by the IRA for the last 30 years. Many people have died as a result of this, we, especially in London, live with the reality of this situation every day. So we do have some idea as to what the threat of 'terrorism' is about. If I wanted to get contentious, I could point out that a great deal of the IRA's funding comes from.....well, guess where ?
Another thing, around 500 British people were killed on September 11, as were over 1000 people of the muslim faith. So it wasn't just wholesome as apple pie US citizens aspiring to achieve the American Dream that were killed in the World Trade Centre, it was many different people of different faiths and nationalities.
As for 'embracing' neo-liberalist economic policy, well, it's pretty much fucked all of the developing world. The list really is endless, and if you don't know the arguments, or as I gather by your provocative posts, don't wish to, well what's the point in discussing them? Has embracing such economic principles really done countires like Burma, Argentina or Sri Lanka any good ? Well no, they're pretty much dictatorships with appalling human rights records, and the only winners have been, as ever, the very rich and the military (in many cases the same thing).
Why is neo-liberalism the best way ? Because the US says so ? Rather patronising I would have thought.
Strange, that the taleban were pretty much a joint US/Pakistani invetion and Bin Laden was trained by the CIA.
Still, you know best.
[ 13 October 2001: Message edited by: J-Bob ]
It seems pointless replying to you, as it is clear you haven't even read through the many detailed arguments that have been posted up on this site, but a few elementry points should perhaps be raised.
Firstly, this is a British based site - that doesn't mean that it's exclusively British (as JWH said), and in fact, there are a number of US based regulars who post here.
Secondly, I've been coming here for quite some time and the views you say have been propagated here simply haven't occurred. Yes, it has been pointed out that the US' interventionist foreign policy is bound to upset nations and citizens of the countries that the US tramples over in order to utilise their natural resources for their own ends (numerous countries in the Middle East, South America and Asia( spring to mind). Yes, this is not in isolation, Britain is just, if not more complicit in this. These points are not unreasonable to make prior to or post the tragic events of September 11.
To be brief, the paradigm is this; neither is it unreasonable to mention the 200,000 Iraqi civillians that were killed during the carpet bombing of Baghdad, or the 500 Iraqi children that die every month (due to UN sanctions).
For your information (and I would have thought with your superior intellect you would have known this), mainland Britain has been bombed by the IRA for the last 30 years. Many people have died as a result of this, we, especially in London, live with the reality of this situation every day. So we do have some idea as to what the threat of 'terrorism' is about. If I wanted to get contentious, I could point out that a great deal of the IRA's funding comes from.....well, guess where ?
Another thing, around 500 British people were killed on September 11, as were over 1000 people of the muslim faith. So it wasn't just wholesome as apple pie US citizens aspiring to achieve the American Dream that were killed in the World Trade Centre, it was many different people of different faiths and nationalities.
As for 'embracing' neo-liberalist economic policy, well, it's pretty much fucked all of the developing world. The list really is endless, and if you don't know the arguments, or as I gather by your provocative posts, don't wish to, well what's the point in discussing them? Has embracing such economic principles really done countires like Burma, Argentina or Sri Lanka any good ? Well no, they're pretty much dictatorships with appalling human rights records, and the only winners have been, as ever, the very rich and the military (in many cases the same thing).
Why is neo-liberalism the best way ? Because the US says so ? Rather patronising I would have thought.
Strange, that the taleban were pretty much a joint US/Pakistani invetion and Bin Laden was trained by the CIA.
Still, you know best.
[ 13 October 2001: Message edited by: J-Bob ]
J
J-Bob
Guest
Just another thing, two months prior to September 11 it was reported that the US intended to start military action against Afghanistan in its desire to hunt down bin Laden. Apparentely, al Quaeda were aware of this. Should they have done nothing as well ? Just a question.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS! THE TALIBAN ARE NOT THE AFGANISTANI PEOPLE! BOMBING CAN ONLY BENIFIT OBL AND HIS CRACKPOT SUPPORTERS, BY KILLING INNOCENT SIVILIANS THE WEST ARE ALIENATING AFGANS AND OTHER MEMBERS OF THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY.
I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH OBL DIEING ALONG WITH THE TALIBAN SCUM. I AM SURE MOST PEOPLE ON HERE DETEST THE ATTACKS ON WTC AS MUCH AS YOU DO. I WANT TO HAVE FUN ON U75 AND NOT HAVE TO REPEAT MYSELF CONSTANTLY IN THE MANNER OF NOMONEY/JOHN THOMAS. BUT IGNORENT RIGHT WINGERS SUCH AS YOU ARE MAKING IT IMPOSSOBLE.
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE NOT THE SAME AS THE US GOVERNMENT, THEY WERE ENTIRELY INNOCENT CIVILIANS, FOR THAT REASON I DETEST THEIR DEATHS AS MUCH AS I DO THE DEATHS OF AFGANS. WHY DON'T YOU DISPLAY SOME INTELLECT YOURSELF AND ACTUALY READ OUR POSTS BEFORE JUMPING ON A BANDWAGON.
I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH OBL DIEING ALONG WITH THE TALIBAN SCUM. I AM SURE MOST PEOPLE ON HERE DETEST THE ATTACKS ON WTC AS MUCH AS YOU DO. I WANT TO HAVE FUN ON U75 AND NOT HAVE TO REPEAT MYSELF CONSTANTLY IN THE MANNER OF NOMONEY/JOHN THOMAS. BUT IGNORENT RIGHT WINGERS SUCH AS YOU ARE MAKING IT IMPOSSOBLE.
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE NOT THE SAME AS THE US GOVERNMENT, THEY WERE ENTIRELY INNOCENT CIVILIANS, FOR THAT REASON I DETEST THEIR DEATHS AS MUCH AS I DO THE DEATHS OF AFGANS. WHY DON'T YOU DISPLAY SOME INTELLECT YOURSELF AND ACTUALY READ OUR POSTS BEFORE JUMPING ON A BANDWAGON.
Patel's Corner Shop
Why did you say "boo hoo" & "diddums" in response to Tribal's initial post? Did you find the attack on the World Trade Centre amusing? If you don't like what he says either ignore him or argue with him, please don't show disrespect to the victims of the terorist outrage.
Why did you say "boo hoo" & "diddums" in response to Tribal's initial post? Did you find the attack on the World Trade Centre amusing? If you don't like what he says either ignore him or argue with him, please don't show disrespect to the victims of the terorist outrage.
PatelsCornerShop
watching you watching me
Oh please don't get on your moral high horse about this.
Yes I did say it and with very good reason. There are some people who come here to fill these boards with their poison and hate, and who are absolutely not interested in discussion. I expressed my contempt. Why shouldn't I?
It doesn't show disrespect at all. If you've been on these boards for any amount of time you know what my stance is, so please stop jumping to conclusions.
Yes I did say it and with very good reason. There are some people who come here to fill these boards with their poison and hate, and who are absolutely not interested in discussion. I expressed my contempt. Why shouldn't I?
It doesn't show disrespect at all. If you've been on these boards for any amount of time you know what my stance is, so please stop jumping to conclusions.
excellent post j-bob. why do right wingers always have to inflict themselves on everyone else. they're never content with having their viewpoint. they insist that everyone else has to think the same. when their own shitty capitalist system fails them in any way they straight away attack everything/anything except the real enemy. 
M
Man Of Kent
Guest
Please tell me that I'm not the only one who sees the irony in this post...
Apart from the emotional posting by our NYC member, the remaining posts have been condemning him for expressing his opinion.
This is precisely what you have been doing. I have faced it myself, and it makes me laugh. I get the impression that memebrs are only welcom if they are socialist. That rather than debate an issue you would all rather backslap and agree on how 'horrid' capitalism is.
IMHO I would have thought that a little courtesy would have been better, you could have directed him to the other threads on this issue and suggested he read those first. Instead you attack, a nice tolerant approach you show while castigating the US for doing the same (albeit on a much grander scale). What happened to dialogue?
J
Johnny Canuck
Guest
I was glad to see Tribal's posts ('no shit', you all say...)
I enjoy good intellectual debate, and therefore enjoy trading posts with you leftist tossers. I always believed that it's useful to try to present opposing views in an attempt to convince, even if it seems futile..
But, I'm Canadian, and didn't lose anyone in NYC. So I'm a little further removed from ground zero than Tribal.
I'lllet you in on a secret: I agree with everything he says. Most of us do (for the precision required by JdubyaH: 'us' refers to the inhabitants of Fortress North America). The only difference: I have been using the words of debate. He has chosen the words of passion. It's interesting that one or two of you have suggested shunning him (something about 'the Troll'). Bravo! Another excellent suggestion on how to deal with something you disagee with, or that makes you uncomfortable.
Reason and debate are excellent tools, but I believe there are times in human endeavour that call for a reaching back, or down, to the strength that comes from passion. I believe that the evil of Sept. 11 calls for passion.
Tribal's post presents an excellent exposition of what I've been trying to explain: the depth of feeling created here by Sept. 11. As I've also said before, you can take Tribal's reaction, and multiply it by many millions of souls, and you have the current temperament of the USA.
So, while intellectuals debate the relativities of Islam and Mammon, America, full of wrath, will take the whirlwind to the Middle East.
To Tribal: Amen, brother. Your loss has sickened the hearts of Canadians and changed our lives forever. I hope your people, and mine, have the courage to do what must be done.
I enjoy good intellectual debate, and therefore enjoy trading posts with you leftist tossers. I always believed that it's useful to try to present opposing views in an attempt to convince, even if it seems futile..
But, I'm Canadian, and didn't lose anyone in NYC. So I'm a little further removed from ground zero than Tribal.
I'lllet you in on a secret: I agree with everything he says. Most of us do (for the precision required by JdubyaH: 'us' refers to the inhabitants of Fortress North America). The only difference: I have been using the words of debate. He has chosen the words of passion. It's interesting that one or two of you have suggested shunning him (something about 'the Troll'). Bravo! Another excellent suggestion on how to deal with something you disagee with, or that makes you uncomfortable.
Reason and debate are excellent tools, but I believe there are times in human endeavour that call for a reaching back, or down, to the strength that comes from passion. I believe that the evil of Sept. 11 calls for passion.
Tribal's post presents an excellent exposition of what I've been trying to explain: the depth of feeling created here by Sept. 11. As I've also said before, you can take Tribal's reaction, and multiply it by many millions of souls, and you have the current temperament of the USA.
So, while intellectuals debate the relativities of Islam and Mammon, America, full of wrath, will take the whirlwind to the Middle East.
To Tribal: Amen, brother. Your loss has sickened the hearts of Canadians and changed our lives forever. I hope your people, and mine, have the courage to do what must be done.
PatelsCornerShop
watching you watching me
Yeah. Amen. Whatever. So let's have some passion.
And let's all go Kick Ass!
And then let more terrorists kick American Ass!
And then let America kick Ass back!
And then let some more terrorists kick American Ass back!....
...and so on.
Goodbye common sense. Welcome to vengeance and death.
Good luck, cowboys.
Plus, laughable statement:
(He says with his hand on his sleeve)
From the comfort of your armchairs and TV sets. So courageous of you.
[ 14 October 2001: Message edited by: PatelsCornerShop ]
And let's all go Kick Ass!
And then let more terrorists kick American Ass!
And then let America kick Ass back!
And then let some more terrorists kick American Ass back!....
...and so on.
Goodbye common sense. Welcome to vengeance and death.
Good luck, cowboys.
Plus, laughable statement:
(He says with his hand on his sleeve)
From the comfort of your armchairs and TV sets. So courageous of you.
[ 14 October 2001: Message edited by: PatelsCornerShop ]
bezzer
!i!iCommodore 64!i!i
“Your people and mine” ? makes me wonder what the (third) type of people are ? does it rhyme with (world) ?
passion is great thing, but its like using swear words, ( they some times make good full stops in a sentence, but not so good when it comes to commers ) ( and I know this because I am crap at english my self) just some freandly advice.
Man of kent… I think you sould re-read jwh post. when people come on these bords and tell posters to …” GO FUCK yourselves “ this can inflame people a little bit ( hence the big fucking flame gif image at the top ). And maybe I can offer you another example to why you are pised off……( your arguments are weak ?) it sometimes happens.
And jhoney… you sound like a ten year old ( have some self respect ). Reveling in the contrversey of war. Did we come by recommendation of a counceller , for people who don’t now to deal with there emotions, with in a international conflict. Unless you have a real point to make why don’t you write a letter to the american milittery, so they can install a button into your house, which can remotley launce cruse missiles at starving people in poor countries.
Passion ? alas they old lie...Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
passion is great thing, but its like using swear words, ( they some times make good full stops in a sentence, but not so good when it comes to commers ) ( and I know this because I am crap at english my self) just some freandly advice.
Man of kent… I think you sould re-read jwh post. when people come on these bords and tell posters to …” GO FUCK yourselves “ this can inflame people a little bit ( hence the big fucking flame gif image at the top ). And maybe I can offer you another example to why you are pised off……( your arguments are weak ?) it sometimes happens.
And jhoney… you sound like a ten year old ( have some self respect ). Reveling in the contrversey of war. Did we come by recommendation of a counceller , for people who don’t now to deal with there emotions, with in a international conflict. Unless you have a real point to make why don’t you write a letter to the american milittery, so they can install a button into your house, which can remotley launce cruse missiles at starving people in poor countries.
Passion ? alas they old lie...Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
J
johnwisehammer
Guest
"As I've also said before, you can take Tribal's reaction, and multiply it by many millions of souls, and you have the current temperament of the USA."
Well, quite - and multiply that one day feeling by 46 years, and you have the current temperament of Palestinians. But of course, you seem to think that America has a monopoly on suffering and besides, you've lost one brother, you've lost them all, right?
Well, quite - and multiply that one day feeling by 46 years, and you have the current temperament of Palestinians. But of course, you seem to think that America has a monopoly on suffering and besides, you've lost one brother, you've lost them all, right?
J
J-Bob
Guest
Man of Kent, I get your drift, but have to say I am rather bemused by its sentiments. If I'm not very much mistaken, for the majority of my 28 years on this planet, I have been under the governance of right-wing ideology. The bulk of printed, televised and later, electronic media, has been profoundly right-wing in its ideological framework. Any sense of socialist politics has been cast aside as being an aberration of history. Contemporary society is charged with an aggressive, over zealous thirst for profits, which imprints itself negatively upon mankind as a whole: it's all about the bottom line.
My bemusement stems from the fact that there are but few places where if you do not hold these right wing politics you are not laughed out of the place and accused of being 'idealistic', 'naive' or 'ignorant of human nature'. This message board is one of those few places. In a country where the best selling paper is The Sun, closely followed by The Mail, I think it's rather spurious to suggest that people with socialist principles (or in this case, those who do not agree with the war-mongering blood lust of the US' foreign policy for the last 30 years), are ignorant and unwilling to listen to opposing points of view. We've had those perspectives rammed down our throats since birth, and are bombarded with right-wing propaganda by the mass media. How can we possibly ignore such arguments ?
My bemusement stems from the fact that there are but few places where if you do not hold these right wing politics you are not laughed out of the place and accused of being 'idealistic', 'naive' or 'ignorant of human nature'. This message board is one of those few places. In a country where the best selling paper is The Sun, closely followed by The Mail, I think it's rather spurious to suggest that people with socialist principles (or in this case, those who do not agree with the war-mongering blood lust of the US' foreign policy for the last 30 years), are ignorant and unwilling to listen to opposing points of view. We've had those perspectives rammed down our throats since birth, and are bombarded with right-wing propaganda by the mass media. How can we possibly ignore such arguments ?
PatelsCornerShop
watching you watching me
I agree with J-Bob's sentiments.
The only thing that I would add is that I don't see this as a left-right thing. For me the important distinctions to make are about:
1. Ignorance.
2. Hypocrisy.
If a person is ignorant and doesn't know that he/she is ignorant, then that person is blissfully unaware of the realities of the world, as well as pretty dangerous if armed with a lot of nuclear weapons and things. I would say that a disproportionate amount of North American postings fall into this category. Which is unfortunate for the rest of those in the States and Canada who are trying to knock reason into some of these ignorants. To the latter, I wish you well.
That's not to say that the rest of us aren't ignorant in a lot of respects. We are human after all. We will never know everything about everything. Most of us don't even know that we don't know. The rest of us can't seek any comfort in the fact that what we know isn't that much anyway.
The fact is that a person who acknowledges that they are ignorant about things but makes the effort to learn is a person who can be respected. So we should all make the effort to know about what is going on in the rest of the world, through our own eyes and experiences, but also from people living in different parts of the world. We have the means through the internet, so why not use it?
The point about hypocrisy is self-explanatory. A person who is consistent in his/her approach is more respected than a person who is not. Again, none of us escapes hypocrisy but for those of us who are aware that it exists and try to do something about it are those people who will be respected by other people.
The only thing that I would add is that I don't see this as a left-right thing. For me the important distinctions to make are about:
1. Ignorance.
2. Hypocrisy.
If a person is ignorant and doesn't know that he/she is ignorant, then that person is blissfully unaware of the realities of the world, as well as pretty dangerous if armed with a lot of nuclear weapons and things. I would say that a disproportionate amount of North American postings fall into this category. Which is unfortunate for the rest of those in the States and Canada who are trying to knock reason into some of these ignorants. To the latter, I wish you well.
That's not to say that the rest of us aren't ignorant in a lot of respects. We are human after all. We will never know everything about everything. Most of us don't even know that we don't know. The rest of us can't seek any comfort in the fact that what we know isn't that much anyway.
The fact is that a person who acknowledges that they are ignorant about things but makes the effort to learn is a person who can be respected. So we should all make the effort to know about what is going on in the rest of the world, through our own eyes and experiences, but also from people living in different parts of the world. We have the means through the internet, so why not use it?
The point about hypocrisy is self-explanatory. A person who is consistent in his/her approach is more respected than a person who is not. Again, none of us escapes hypocrisy but for those of us who are aware that it exists and try to do something about it are those people who will be respected by other people.
K
kissthecat
Guest
When I was six I was told stories about a rich Prince who got all the gold and the princess. In my mind I was going to be the prince was sure I was going to treat the poorer ones QUITE well. This was the beginning of my 'education'. Being taught the wisdom (and occasional mistake) of the ruling class continues with new fairy stories.
So I agree with J-bob et al that we are still being fed capitalist propaganda in the name of news.
Always the question, "what would you do"? We cannot hope to change Afghanistan for the better until we change the outside world. We cannot reach out the hand of friendship whilst they know that the hand coming in with corn (good but not enough) and now bombs (bad) is going out with their future and their common wealth. When we are truly civilised then they will trust us.
Now how can we get more civilised?
edited for grammar
[ 14 October 2001: Message edited by: kissthecat ]
So I agree with J-bob et al that we are still being fed capitalist propaganda in the name of news.
Always the question, "what would you do"? We cannot hope to change Afghanistan for the better until we change the outside world. We cannot reach out the hand of friendship whilst they know that the hand coming in with corn (good but not enough) and now bombs (bad) is going out with their future and their common wealth. When we are truly civilised then they will trust us.
Now how can we get more civilised?
edited for grammar
[ 14 October 2001: Message edited by: kissthecat ]
Been following this but not contributing. I generally leave the politics to the big boys (that's, er, you lot).
Just wanted to say "great post" to J-Bob and PatelsCornershop. I fall in to the category of knowing that I don't know much when it comes to international politics. I'm learning abit from posts in this forum however - often as much about the nature of the writer as the subject.
Just wanted to say "great post" to J-Bob and PatelsCornershop. I fall in to the category of knowing that I don't know much when it comes to international politics. I'm learning abit from posts in this forum however - often as much about the nature of the writer as the subject.
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