Identity Politics: the impasse, the debate, the thread.

[Treacle Toes]

Yes, them.

 

[Athos]

Because he says so.

Except I didn't say so.

I didn't assert that it does, necessarily.

 

[elbows]

Because he says so. Because it is always their fault, them, over there. Their behaviours and beliefs are the problem. Point, point, point...other, other, other...externalise everything that is apparently unacceptable whilst never actually being transparent about what perspective and actual experience that informs these judgements. Hiding behind a superficial online persona and OH try hard, DESPARATELY AND TIME CONSUMING HARD, pick your targets, attack, attack, attack....claim victim hood or blame them if they dare to call you out or fuck you off for doing so.

Slivver and snake and fork tongue your way around...say the right things so that the vanguard believe you are one of them, whatever and whomever that is today, on this thread. If you are questioned, feign innocence, feign humbleness. Quickly return to blaming those others though just in case, never let them get to close, or personal...grandstand and showcase, compete and win...it's their fault, them idpolitickers and liberals over there...

A little poem i've written.

To wholeheartedly agree with that and never to see any of those traits in myself or anybody I like and agree with would require less self-awareness than I think I possess.

 

[Athos]

To wholeheartedly agree with that and never to see any of those traits in myself or anybody I like and agree with would require less self-awareness than I think I possess.

It's not that she's not self-aware. Just a liar and a hypocrite.

 

[Treacle Toes]

To wholeheartedly agree with that and never to see any of those traits in myself or anybody I like and agree with would require less self-awareness than I think I possess.

I didn't ask you to agree. Nor do I believe I am perfect. I was reflecting the situation as I experience it. It just gets really old reading this butter wouldn't melt shit.

You attempted to get to the crevices of the impasse and how it plays out here on urban a few days ago. It would require the level of self awareness you are talking about. We'd all need to get a little personal and be less superficial. I get it. Have a look back and see how that was stopped in happening and why. I have come to believe some people just actually enjoy war.

 

[elbows]

It's not that she's not self-aware. Just a liar and a hypocrite.

I'll have to make my own mind up about that. It would be nice if such exploration at least happened on this thread in a way that fully maintained a focus on id politics, but I don't see many signs of that right now. But never give up hope, at any moment we might find ourselves on topic again.

 

[Athos]

I'll have to make my own mind up about that. It would be nice if such exploration at least happened on this thread in a way that fully maintained a focus on id politics, but I don't see many signs of that right now. But never give up hope, at any moment we might find ourselves on topic again.

Yes, I hope she won't persist in derailing it with her creepy obsession with me.

 

[elbows]

To both of your last replies, I can give the same reply: It takes two to tango.

Since I prefer mosh pits, I'm sure I will continue to stick my nose in, the more the merrier.

 

[elbows]

So whats the story as to why the topic of this thread seems to be a flashpoint in this particular clash between you?

eg. Some people think you practice ID politics, but you don't think you do? Some other variation of that? Nothing like that?

 

[Athos]

So whats the story as to why the topic of this thread seems to be a flashpoint in this particular clash between you?

eg. Some people think you practice ID politics, but you don't think you do? Some other variation of that? Nothing like that?

To be fair I think we're at the stage of mutual contempt that we'd argue about anything.

 

[elbows]

To be fair I think we're at the stage or mutual contempt that we'd argue about anything.

From what I've seen so far I wouldn't bet against that. But I am trying to establish whether there is anything that actually relates to id politics involved on any level of this clash.

 

[Athos]

From what I've seen so far I wouldn't bet against that. But I am trying to establish whether there is anything that actually relates to id politics involved on any level of this clash.

Part of my antipathy is based on her IDPol, certainly.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Part of my antipathy is based on her IDPol, certainly.

I really don't think she is even in favour of ID politics, any more than I am.

It's not that she's not self-aware. Just a liar and a hypocrite.

No she is not. She is decent and truthful in my experience. (Rutita1 solidarity!) I have no idea why you or other posters here, feel the need to attack constantly her in such an objectional and personal way. Now why don't you just slither off.

 

[Athos]

I really don't think she is even in favour of ID politics, any more than I am.

No she is not. She is decent and truthful in my experience. (Rutita1 solidarity!) I have no idea why you or other posters here, feel the need to attack constantly her in such an objectional and personal way. Now why don't you just slither off.

She doesn't even understand what IDPol is,never mind understand her own participation in it.

My experience of her differs from yours. But let's not pretend she doesn't give as good as she gets; she always popping up with the snide digs and name calling.

 

[friendofdorothy]

But let's not pretent she doesn't give as good as she gets.

no one who can't give back abuse here, can last long on these political threads.

I don't think many of you keen, academically well read, good marxist posters show any solidarity on this forum.

 

[Athos]

no one who can't give back abuse here, can last long on these political threads.

I don't think many of you keen, academically well read, good marxist posters show any solidarity on this forum.

Solidarity with whom?

 

[friendofdorothy]

Solidarity with whom?

ha ha ha.
Thank you for your support.

 

[Athos]

ha ha ha.
Thank you for your support.

What's so funny? Genuinely, I was asking whom you think I should be showing solidarity with? And why? And what solidarity is based upon? What it looks like? And whether you think it's mutual?

 

[kabbes]

Yesterday, I got ticked off for being "rude" and "demanding" for politely asking a poster for some evidence to back up their assertions.

That’s not what happened, actually.

 

[Treacle Toes]

no one who can't give back abuse here, can last long on these political threads.

I don't think many of you keen, academically well read, good marxist posters show any solidarity on this forum.

I should just suck it up and not fight back apparently. I should know my place and let this bullshit be imposed on me. Errr...

How am I supposed to do that exactly though being the cis, het, mixed ethinicity, Working class, female, feminist, human, Idpoliticker, selfish, Athos and class exclusionary, idiot that I supposedly am?

I think it would be amazing if he actually talked about what it is to be him for once instead of this immature, projecting, boring, try hard to fit in, objectifying and abusive of others snake like dance. He has followed around and abused more than I here, yet I am the one with the creepy oppression because I dare to point this behaviour out now and again. I will never stop pointing it out when I feel it's relevant. I will never cow tow to this nonsense. He can slither and manipulate and hide all he wants.

Thanks for noticing.

 

[Athos]

That’s not what happened, actually.

How so?

 

[chilango]

no one who can't give back abuse here, can last long on these political threads.

I think that’s neither true, nor fair.

I don’t “give back abuse”. I’ve lasted, what, 13,14 years on here.

Most posters I read don’t do it either.

I don't think many of you keen, academically well read, good marxist posters show any solidarity on this forum.

I’m not sure I count amongst these, but - when it matters - I’ve seen some very real soldarity shown by a huge range of posters on here.

That’s not the same as piling into a spat between athos and rutita in which both seem willing and able to engage in with gusto.

Personally, I’d rather they didn’t. But whatever. There’s plenty of good stuff making me think in other bits of the thread.

 

[redsquirrel]

Yeah, can we try to get back on topic.

 

[Athos]

I should just suck it up and not fight back apparently. I should know my place and let this bullshit be imposed on me. Errr...

How am I supposed to do that exactly being the cis, het, mixed ethinicity, Working class, female, feminist, human, Idpoliticker, selfish, Athos and class exclusionary, idiot that I supposedly am?

I think it would be amazing if he actually talked about what it is to be him for once instead of this immature, projecting, boring, try hard to fit in, objectifying and abusive of others snake like dance. He has followed around and abused more than I here, yet I am the one with the creepy oppression because I dare to point this behaviour out now and again. I will never stop pointing it out when I feel it's relevant. I will never cow tow to this nonsense. He can slither and manipulate and hide all he wants.

Thanks for noticing.

You're such a blow-hard buillshitter.

The passive-aggressive victim shtick is wearing a bit thin.

You've raised your strange interest in my personal details before. Exactly what is it you want to know about "what it is to be [me]?

ETA: actually, others are right, we shouldn't derail. PM any questions.

 

[kabbes]

How so?

You weren’t polite.

I get that you think you were, but you weren’t

 

[chilango]

You weren’t polite.

I get that you think you were, but you weren’t

“Manners cost nothing” as my Gran used to say.

 

[Treacle Toes]

You're such a blow-hard buillshitter.

The passive-aggressive victim shtick is wearing a bit thin.

You've raised your strange interest in my personal details before. Exactly what is it you want to know about what it is to be me?

That's the point Athos. I will never be your victim. You spend too much time quoting and abusing and never really doing much else than telling me and others why we are so objectionable, even though you clearly don't have a fucking clue who people actually are and what they do. You could be a bit more authentic, self reflective and less abusive. You could talk more about you.

You won't though will you because all of it seems like some poncy teenage competition. Seemingly some way you are scoring and winning at life.

Back to Coventry you go.

 

[danny la rouge]

Personally, I’d rather they didn’t.

Yup. Can you give it a rest, you pair, please?

 

[J Ed]

You, me, him, her.

 

[Athos]

That's the point Athos. I will never be your victim. You spend too much time quoting and abusing and never really doing much else than telling me and others why we are so objectionable, even though you clearly do have a fucking clue who people actually are and what they do. You could be a bit more authentic, self reflective and less abusive.

You won't though will you because all of it seems like some poncy teenage competition. Seemingly some way you are scoring and winning at life.

Back to Coventry you go.

I don't want you to be my victim.

Your hypocrisy is breath-taking. You're forever pontificating on who I am and what I do, without the slightest knowledge.

And you've called me a cunt on a number of occasions; the idea that I'm abusive and you're blameless suggests it might be you who needs a bit more self-reflection!

Please do return to ignoring me, for all our sakes.

And for the sake of the thread. Let's not derail it any more.