I hope the Prez don't suspect me of anything
- Thread starter snorbury
- Start date
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
spring-peeper said:
"Point out the horrid realities" to you? I'd have thought that was obvious. I'm not here to do your work for you btw.
As for Celtic culture, I am referring specifically to the cultural practices of the Celts of Europe.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
nino_savatte said:
You do my work for me? I've got four kids...you can't handle my job.
I guess that if you wish to make broad, sweeping generalizations and refuse of offer any examples, that's your choice. Free speech and all that.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/5011502.stm
Another 36 civilians(?) killed in a "clean up" operation. Hope the prez doesn't ever want to clean up my area. There's certainly a lot of militants and anti nato types around here.
Another 36 civilians(?) killed in a "clean up" operation. Hope the prez doesn't ever want to clean up my area. There's certainly a lot of militants and anti nato types around here.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
spring-peeper said:
You're either thick or playing at being thick. Do you honestly think Afghanistan is some sort of paragon of 'freedom and democracy'?
Do me a favour.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
nino_savatte said:You're either thick or playing at being thick. Do you honestly think Afghanistan is some sort of paragon of 'freedom and democracy'?
Do me a favour.
Where ever did you get that notion from?
I guess I really am thick, aren't I?
Do me a favour and show me which one of my post(s) would have lead you to believe that I would hold this country up as a shining example of 'democracy and freedom'?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
spring-peeper said:Where ever did you get that notion from?
I guess I really am thick, aren't I?
Do me a favour and show me which one of my post(s) would have lead you to believe that I would hold this country up as a shining example of 'democracy and freedom'?
Well, you've asked me to prove that Afghanistan is not in a horrible state. That says to me that you believe it to be a place where democracy and freedom flourish. The warlords control the country outside of Kabul. I don't see that as being free or democratic. These are the same people who rely heavily on opium production to buy arms and to hold onto power. This has been the case for decades.
This is why many people refer to Karzai as "The Mayor of Kabul".
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
nino_savatte said:
No, I didn't.
you said:
me said:
I wasn't claiming that Afghanistan was a shining whatever. I was asking you which horrible realities you were thinking of.
Once again, nino, you are looking for something that isn't there.
A US spokesman, Tom Collins, said the troops had the right to return fire during the raid, after insurgents occupied the homes of villagers.
"We didn't know there were civilians in the houses," he said.
what's wrong with Tom Collins? He doesn't know where he is or what he's doing and nor do the nato troops he represents. I suspect he's a liar.
"We didn't know there were civilians in the houses," he said.
what's wrong with Tom Collins? He doesn't know where he is or what he's doing and nor do the nato troops he represents. I suspect he's a liar.
Major Tom said:no - i consider myself fairly impartial re US versus USSR - i was opposed to both superpowers - but of course there's only one now.
You seem to think that just cos I oppose US actions, suddenly I must support their enemy. Very puzzling logic there.
I do think you are choosing to ignore the reality that the US government wished to draw the USSR into a resource draining war in Afghanistan - and did what was necessary to cause this to happen. Why can;t you deal with those facts before calling me creepy.
but they didn't
I don;t think you know what logic is
all america all the time
Thats right, blame America for everything including the Soviets invasion of Afghanistan. All America all the time indeed.
The Soviets could have put an economic embargo on Afghanistan as the US did with Cuba. They could have withdrawn their embassador. They could have funneled arms to communist elements.
Instead they took the option of full scale invasion. There were plenty of options on the table but the Soviets took the most extreme. And look at the results.
You are more interested in blaming all the worlds problems, past and present, on the US. Eyes wide shut
The people are speaking:
"77 percent of Afghans say their country is headed in the right direction — compared with 30 percent in the vastly better-off United States. Ninety-one percent prefer the current Afghan government to the Taliban regime, and 87 percent call the U.S.-led overthrow of the Taliban good for their country. Osama bin Laden, for his part, is as unpopular as the Taliban; nine in 10 view him unfavorably."
"Despite the country's continued problems, 85 percent of Afghans say living conditions there are better now than they were under the Taliban. Eighty percent cite improved freedom to express political views. And 75 percent say their security from crime and violence has improved as well. After decades of oppression and war, many Afghans see a better life."
http://abcnews.go.com/International/PollVault/story?id=1363276
No one has a comment on this?
Eyes wide shut...
"77 percent of Afghans say their country is headed in the right direction — compared with 30 percent in the vastly better-off United States. Ninety-one percent prefer the current Afghan government to the Taliban regime, and 87 percent call the U.S.-led overthrow of the Taliban good for their country. Osama bin Laden, for his part, is as unpopular as the Taliban; nine in 10 view him unfavorably."
"Despite the country's continued problems, 85 percent of Afghans say living conditions there are better now than they were under the Taliban. Eighty percent cite improved freedom to express political views. And 75 percent say their security from crime and violence has improved as well. After decades of oppression and war, many Afghans see a better life."
http://abcnews.go.com/International/PollVault/story?id=1363276
No one has a comment on this?
Eyes wide shut...
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
so who's doing most of the killing? I know a US national was killed last week, but surely there have been more attrocities?spring-peeper said:
And who is it who's turning a blind eye to the opium trade? who's to blame? Surely it's the Natos, (and those evil satanists who foerced them to go there in the first place, the taliban/ Bin Laden's 9-11 bombers)
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
spring-peeper said:
Once again, you're playing at being thick or you're taking the same line as mears. In other words, you've put your head in the sand and have accepted the word of the government and all those who accept signs as proof of 'freedom and democracy'. I'm "looking for something that isn't there"? What is that supposed to mean? You're telling me that evrything is okay while, at the same time, denying what you have said. I regard that a dishonest in the extreme.
It's the way you claimed that your soldiers were fighting for "freedom and democracy" that gets me. For a Canadian, you don't half come out with a lot of Yank-sounding crap.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
mears said:
I speak your weight. Insert coin.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
mears said:
"The people" are doing what, mears? You've taken this from a single source and have presented this as the gospel truth. It's one survey that was conducted by a US based news organisation. It's hardly proof that things are getting better.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
Major Tom said:
What, Mears only working in 0's and 1's?!?! Surely not!
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
mears said:
NO prizes for getting half way Mears. Maybe things will changei n Afghanistan, or maybe you'll still be there in 30 years and the Afghan people will have changed their mind. With the upturn in violence (since that poll) from people bringing the knowledge of IED's from Iraq and Pakistan's borders being used as a starting point for attacks on US troops there's a massive way to go. Im glad the Afghan people are optimistic but then again you cited lots of polls about Iraq and you turned out to be badly wrong there.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
snorbury - I'm glad that you have a social conscience but there are places that are in worse shape that Afghanistan.
Ever felt completely helpless and just pray that someone will come and help? Can you empathize?
Imagine you are a child and everything starts exploding with violence - bombs going off, people getting executed, neighbour set upon each other based on nothing other than the language you speak. Imagine how relieved you hear that something called "the war measures act" and you hope this means the end of the tumoil. Imagine the relief as you watch the Canadian army come into your city. On each street corner, there is a man with a gun and now you start feeling safe again. That was me in Montreal, 1970.
Imagine that your area gets blanketed with so much snow that your area can't get to you. It's day three - still no school (yea!!) but the area is out of food and beer. We have skiis and a tobaggan, so we ski to get supplies for the neighbourhood. The next day, help finally arrived!!! Yea - snowplows!!! Look at that the Canadian army is driving all the machines in my area. That was me in Montreal - 1972.
Imagine being a mother with four young children and it's the middle of a winter. You are alone with four young children and can't walk. There is a natural disaster - three ice storms in a row. There is no electricity (ie - no heat, no drinking water). It's day four - you are now out of water and starting to dehydrate. You can't send the children out for help - the situation is too dangerous and they would probably get badly hurt. So you sit there...waiting....hoping with all your heart that someone will come and find you and give you and your children some water. The Canadian army came - and they came back everyday until you can start to look after yourself. That was me in 1998.
Imagine that you are a mother. A religious militia come into your area and demand that you modify your lifestyle to fit their ideals. No-one seems to be able to stop them - even your own army runs away. The option is to conform or die. So you conform, hoping that someone will come in and help. You want to believe that maybe somewhere, someone actually cares...someone help!!! Oh look, it's the Canadian army. Someone actually does care!!!
I trust and respect both my country and my army. I was proud when my country to Afghanistan said "yes - we will help you. We will stand here and protect you while you try to get your country back on track. Give us a list of what you need".
The UN needs more troops for Darfur - Canada said, "no - we are helping Afghanistan right now. We will not turn our back on them.". That made me proud as well.
Ever felt completely helpless and just pray that someone will come and help? Can you empathize?
Imagine you are a child and everything starts exploding with violence - bombs going off, people getting executed, neighbour set upon each other based on nothing other than the language you speak. Imagine how relieved you hear that something called "the war measures act" and you hope this means the end of the tumoil. Imagine the relief as you watch the Canadian army come into your city. On each street corner, there is a man with a gun and now you start feeling safe again. That was me in Montreal, 1970.
Imagine that your area gets blanketed with so much snow that your area can't get to you. It's day three - still no school (yea!!) but the area is out of food and beer. We have skiis and a tobaggan, so we ski to get supplies for the neighbourhood. The next day, help finally arrived!!! Yea - snowplows!!! Look at that the Canadian army is driving all the machines in my area. That was me in Montreal - 1972.
Imagine being a mother with four young children and it's the middle of a winter. You are alone with four young children and can't walk. There is a natural disaster - three ice storms in a row. There is no electricity (ie - no heat, no drinking water). It's day four - you are now out of water and starting to dehydrate. You can't send the children out for help - the situation is too dangerous and they would probably get badly hurt. So you sit there...waiting....hoping with all your heart that someone will come and find you and give you and your children some water. The Canadian army came - and they came back everyday until you can start to look after yourself. That was me in 1998.
Imagine that you are a mother. A religious militia come into your area and demand that you modify your lifestyle to fit their ideals. No-one seems to be able to stop them - even your own army runs away. The option is to conform or die. So you conform, hoping that someone will come in and help. You want to believe that maybe somewhere, someone actually cares...someone help!!! Oh look, it's the Canadian army. Someone actually does care!!!
I trust and respect both my country and my army. I was proud when my country to Afghanistan said "yes - we will help you. We will stand here and protect you while you try to get your country back on track. Give us a list of what you need".
The UN needs more troops for Darfur - Canada said, "no - we are helping Afghanistan right now. We will not turn our back on them.". That made me proud as well.
dilute micro
esse quam videri
Ooohhh.... means a lot coming from you.nino_savatte said:
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
dilute micro said:Ooohhh.... means a lot coming from you.
Well, well, well, if it isn't our favourite neo-confederate. And you're what? Honest? I don't think so, you're the one who claimed that slavery "wasn't that bad because not all slaves worked under an overseer". You're not only a liar but you're a closet racist...I mean it's not as if you can actually admit to your racism on here - is it?
You still think slavery was a benign institution? Of course you do.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
nino_savatte said:
Give me proof that his survey is wrong. Come on - you seem to know what these people are thinking.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
nino_savatte said:
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
nino_savatte said:
Give me your critieria for measuring improvement. I'll see what I can find for you.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
spring-peeper said:
Give you "proof that the survey is wrong"? What kind of ridiculous statement is that? This survey was conducted by a single news organisation fo a particular ideological purpose: to make people like you feel better so that you could justify the continued presence of foreign troops in Afghanistan.
Do you know anything about surveys and how they are put together?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
spring-peeper said:
What are you talking about?
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
nino_savatte said:What are you talking about?
You said that things are not improving. Based on what? What criteria do you use to assess if a situation is improving or deteriorating?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
spring-peeper said:
Do you read news reports from Afghanistan or do you accept stories that spring solely from surveys conducted by ABC news? I reckon you've accepted the latter.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
nino_savatte said:
I know that you will trash any survey that you disagree with, does that count.
If you actually did open the link - all the information is there. Stop being so lazy.
Ok - Mr I-know-everything-about-surveys, a challenge. You set out how and where you would conduct this survey. How would you find out how to citizens of this region are feeling?
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