Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

I hope the Prez don't suspect me of anything

spring-peeper said:
I'm sorry, the only reference to my plan that I could find was



Sorry, I was missed the second part of your post.

As for my idea, Canada just did it!!!! :rolleyes:

And we did it with OUR money, not the US or UK money, ours.

well good for canada - and i'll will fully support such attempts - but it doesn;t change the fact that the US and UK are following through on an illegal act, are continuing to carry out atrocities, have installed a pro-US puppet government, and are lying about the reasons for doing all this.

And do you really think that Canadian initiatives such as this - laudible as it is - is really going to sway the neo-con plan at all?
 
Major Tom said:
Any of us who lives in a country that is supporting US policies in the middle east.

if you knew where i come from would that really change the argument.


tbh i'm pissed off with the slanging matches you get on here between US posters and UK posters each trying to blame the other person;s country for some atrocity or other.

We're all culpable.


Child, I keep asking you where you are from. And now - what, I'm supposed to have some crystal ball to let me know where you live and what you think?

Hello, by the way - I'm from Canada. See the cute little location field? Canada. You do realize that Canadian and American foreign policy are quite different, right?

While you are looking around your browser, you did notice that you are in world politics, right?
 
Major Tom said:
well good for canada - and i'll will fully support such attempts - but it doesn;t change the fact that the US and UK are following through on an illegal act, are continuing to carry out atrocities, have installed a pro-US puppet government, and are lying about the reasons for doing all this.

And do you really think that Canadian initiatives such as this - laudible as it is - is really going to sway the neo-con plan at all?

What makes you think that Canada supports US foreign policy?

Any idea what the Canadian mission in Afghanistan is?

fng!!!
 
spring-peeper said:
Child, I keep asking you where you are from. And now - what, I'm supposed to have some crystal ball to let me know where you live and what you think?

Hello, by the way - I'm from Canada. See the cute little location field? Canada. You do realize that Canadian and American foreign policy are quite different, right?

While you are looking around your browser, you did notice that you are in world politics, right?

I know you're Canadian

I know Canada is not the US

Where did I say otherwise?

I did not want to get into a international slagging match

but you clearly did
 
spring-peeper said:
What makes you think that Canada supports US foreign policy?

Any idea what the Canadian mission in Afghanistan is?

fng!!!
:confused:
you're making me very confused here

i was arguing against mears - who i know is from the US - and you picked a fight with me
 
Actually, Major Tom, your approach is probably correct to dealing with Afghanistan.

I think that we should concentrate on who invaded this country and why - tracing the plight of this nations people through-out all recorded history.

My approach of accepting what is happening now and offering assistance to the Afghan people is really a bit pointless, don't you think?

Please continue discussing whose fault it is - I'll go discuss what is happening right now.
 
spring-peeper said:
My approach of accepting what is happening now and offering assistance to the Afghan people is really a bit pointless, don't you think?

Please continue discussing whose fault it is - I'll go discuss what is happening right now.

as i said before - i wasn't even talking to you - not sure why you've gone all defensive.

shut down the computer for a bit - get some of that fresh canadian air in your lungs, and then come back when you feel less stressed.:D
 
spring-peeper said:
I think that we should concentrate on who invaded this country and why - tracing the plight of this nations people through-out all recorded history.

From the point of view of those of us who live in US-UK and allies - who's politicians stoked up this illegal invasion - making sure our policitans are held to account, and that a similar blood bath could never happen again - in our name - is of major importance.

Or are you content to take on the role of minor nation cleaning up after out of control super-power?

If we can;t learn from the lessons of history, etc...

or not?
 
Major Tom said:
From the point of view of those of us who live in US-UK and allies - who's politicians stoked up this illegal invasion - making sure our policitans are held to account, and that a similar blood bath could never happen again - in our name - is of major importance.

Or are you content to take on the role of minor nation cleaning up after out of control super-power?

If we can;t learn from the lessons of history, etc...

or not?

Actually, that is what Canada does - roams around cleaning up the mess the Americans make after they get bored or something more fun comes along and they leave.

We are quite good at it.
 
Interesting topic, TOM/SP.

What happened to the "you break it, you fix it" convention that was often talked about before the invasion, refering to the rebuilding/reconstruction efforts? Or was that Iraq? I don't recall.
 
Fez909 said:
Interesting topic, TOM/SP.

What happened to the "you break it, you fix it" convention that was often talked about before the invasion, refering to the rebuilding/reconstruction efforts? Or was that Iraq? I don't recall.

I seem to remember that phrase being used extensively during the American "shock and awe" phase, I'm pretty sure that most of those comments were made by me :o

I think that I have changed my mind. I think that - "you broke it - pay compensation and then get the **** out of here before you do more damage" is more in keeping with current way of thinking.

Sorry, but I'm really anti-american to-day.
 
Major Tom said:
they certainly had to do something - given that an aggressive superpower was trying to subvert a government on the Soviet border.


I like to think that my logic is nowhere near as fucked up as yours appears to be:D


i thought this was the official US line.:confused:

Afghanistan was a deliberate policy of provocation - i find it hard to believe you're unaware of Zbignev Bzezhinski's revelations regarding this episode in your history.

So again you support the Soviet policy of invasion and subsequent actions in Afghanistan? They had no choice? The Soviets had to carpet bomb areas of Afghanistan because the puppet regime on their border was falling. Are you really saying this?

Following your logic, an American invasion of Mexico in 1979 would be justified if the Soviets had brought about some type of revolution that threatened to bring in the communists. After the death of over 1 million Mexicans it was really the Soviets fault for provoking the yanks in the first place?

I wonder if you understand how creepy you have allowed yourself to become:confused:
 
Major Tom said:
I'm certain that our troops aren;t in there to help the Afghan people.

Maybe we should ask people in Afghanistan what they need us to do? And I don;t mean ask the government either.

The people are speaking:

"77 percent of Afghans say their country is headed in the right direction — compared with 30 percent in the vastly better-off United States. Ninety-one percent prefer the current Afghan government to the Taliban regime, and 87 percent call the U.S.-led overthrow of the Taliban good for their country. Osama bin Laden, for his part, is as unpopular as the Taliban; nine in 10 view him unfavorably."

"Despite the country's continued problems, 85 percent of Afghans say living conditions there are better now than they were under the Taliban. Eighty percent cite improved freedom to express political views. And 75 percent say their security from crime and violence has improved as well. After decades of oppression and war, many Afghans see a better life."
http://abcnews.go.com/International/PollVault/story?id=1363276
 
mears said:
The people are speaking:

"77 percent of Afghans say their country is headed in the right direction — compared with 30 percent in the vastly better-off United States. Ninety-one percent prefer the current Afghan government to the Taliban regime, and 87 percent call the U.S.-led overthrow of the Taliban good for their country. Osama bin Laden, for his part, is as unpopular as the Taliban; nine in 10 view him unfavorably."

"Despite the country's continued problems, 85 percent of Afghans say living conditions there are better now than they were under the Taliban. Eighty percent cite improved freedom to express political views. And 75 percent say their security from crime and violence has improved as well. After decades of oppression and war, many Afghans see a better life."
http://abcnews.go.com/International/PollVault/story?id=1363276


It's funny how you produce statistics at the drop of a hat...if they square with your ideological position, that is. Here, you use soem stats produced by ABC television but in your haste to prove us all a bunch of "looney lefties" you've overlooked the fact that surveys such as this are often fatally flawed. For instance, were those surveyed living in Kabul or elsewhere in the country? Furthermore, the survey was constructed in such a way that the questions were always going to favour the desired outcome.

If you were honest enough you would admit to that, but I know you aren't honest and it is for this reason that you ignore me and anything that doesn't fit into your narrow view of the world.

You will forever be a speak-your-weight-machine.

I speak your weight. Insert coin.
 
I’ve had a lot of difficulty following the thread, due to problems with my connection.
It’s seems like some people still think democracy in Afghanistan is worth all the suffering, I’m sure the Nato’s don’t think along these lines. The only value in Afghanistan is strategic, the Russians wanted Afghanistan because it was on the route to the Karachi docks and the Americans because it is vital to the Russian invasion plans.
I don’t really think we can do much in the face of the military machine, except refuse to give them our energy. Protest only seems to feed the ego of these barbaric butchers, instead we should concentrate our efforts on creating a very strong alternative culture and economy which can step in and save the day when the supra Christian war machine and it’s Nazi like brand of democracy collapses; as it surely will.
An alternative culture can exist along side the war machine without feeding it or feeding off it. At the end of the day only anarchism can work and the only violence we should use is in direct defence of our own.
 
The thing is, what passes for democracy in Afghanistan is nowt but a series of signs in a signifying chain that leads some to believe that 'democracy' exists in the country. It's an illusion of a mirage.
 
mears said:
So again you support the Soviet policy of invasion and subsequent actions in Afghanistan? They had no choice? The Soviets had to carpet bomb areas of Afghanistan because the puppet regime on their border was falling. Are you really saying this?
no - i consider myself fairly impartial re US versus USSR - i was opposed to both superpowers - but of course there's only one now.

You seem to think that just cos I oppose US actions, suddenly I must support their enemy. Very puzzling logic there.

I do think you are choosing to ignore the reality that the US government wished to draw the USSR into a resource draining war in Afghanistan - and did what was necessary to cause this to happen. Why can;t you deal with those facts before calling me creepy.

Following your logic, an American invasion of Mexico in 1979 would be justified if the Soviets had brought about some type of revolution that threatened to bring in the communists. After the death of over 1 million Mexicans it was really the Soviets fault for provoking the yanks in the first place?
but they didn't:confused:
I don;t think you know what logic is

I wonder if you understand how creepy you have allowed yourself to become:confused:
all america all the time:rolleyes:
 
nino_savatte said:
The thing is, what passes for democracy in Afghanistan is nowt but a series of signs in a signifying chain that leads some to believe that 'democracy' exists in the country. It's an illusion of a mirage.

Same can be said of any country, imo.
 
spring-peeper said:
Same can be said of any country, imo.

More so, in the case of Afghanistan because the government and the media have all claimed that "democracy has returned to the country" as a result of the invasion and occupation. Because the Taliban were ostensibly swept from power (well, swept from Kabul at any rate), this automatically meant that 'democracy' was around the corner. Once the elections were held and then won by Karzai and his boys, the rest was a "done deal", as they say.

However my point is this: Afghanistan was not invaded or occupied with democratic principles in mind; it was a military/police operation designed (ha) to defeat the Taliban, AQ et al. The idea of 'democracy' came second to military action. To say that those troops from the UK, US, Canada and other countries are there for the purpose of fighting for 'freedom' and 'democracy' is a little too simplisitic and rather reductive to say ther least. It's an easy way to avoid thinking about the horrible realities of this ugly conflict.
 
nino_savatte said:
More so, in the case of Afghanistan because the government and the media have all claimed that "democracy has returned to the country" as a result of the invasion and occupation. Because the Taliban were ostensibly swept from power (well, swept from Kabul at any rate), this automatically meant that 'democracy' was around the corner. Once the elections were held and then won by Karzai and his boys, the rest was a "done deal", as they say.

However my point is this: Afghanistan was not invaded or occupied with democratic principles in mind; it was a military/police operation designed (ha) to defeat the Taliban, AQ et al. The idea of 'democracy' came second to military action. To say that those troops from the UK, US, Canada and other countries are there for the purpose of fighting for 'freedom' and 'democracy' is a little too simplisitic and rather reductive to say ther least. It's an easy way to avoid thinking about the horrible realities of this ugly conflict.
:) :) so why do you think the nato's are there nino_savatte?
 
snorbury said:
:) :) so why do you think the nato's are there nino_savatte?

I'm not sure why NATO is there and given the fact that Afghanistan is nowhere near the North Atlantic, one can only conclude that the Yanks and their awful understanding of geography is to blame.:D
 
nino_savatte said:
More so, in the case of Afghanistan because the government and the media have all claimed that "democracy has returned to the country" as a result of the invasion and occupation. Because the Taliban were ostensibly swept from power (well, swept from Kabul at any rate), this automatically meant that 'democracy' was around the corner. Once the elections were held and then won by Karzai and his boys, the rest was a "done deal", as they say.

However my point is this: Afghanistan was not invaded or occupied with democratic principles in mind; it was a military/police operation designed (ha) to defeat the Taliban, AQ et al. The idea of 'democracy' came second to military action. To say that those troops from the UK, US, Canada and other countries are there for the purpose of fighting for 'freedom' and 'democracy' is a little too simplisitic and rather reductive to say ther least. It's an easy way to avoid thinking about the horrible realities of this ugly conflict.

Afghan just signed a telephony contract with Etisalat. Bringing a communication system into the area is something requires a government. Actually, most of the things that Afghan wants for its citizens require some form of government. They chose the democratic model.

Could you please point out the horrid realities to me?



btw: there a lot of Canadian towns that pride themselves on their celtic roots and work hard to preserve this culture.
 
Back
Top Bottom