Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

[Casually Red]

Thanks but.. I'm not sure how relevant whether or not I'm scared of Islam is here, seeing as I've made concerted efforts to say that I think religion is pretty much irrelevant to what happened in Cologne. But being newish is definitely a handicap, as is being lumped in with CR.

I'll just add here...yet again..I've explicitly not blamed Islam from the very outset and can't make that any clearer . There's no doubt at all about that regardless of any additional snide insinuations about racism or..for fucks sake..fascism .
Have a look through the Charlie hebdo thread. I roundly condemned that publication for its gratuitous offensiveness to both Muslims and refugees. And spoke at length about the awful treatment the French Algerian minority have endured there for decades . Including their mass murder at the hands of the cops for daring to protest french mass murder in Algeria . Absolutely nowhere did I blame it on " Muslims " or anything like that .
The thread on the Paris massacres ...all I did there was raise concerns..thankfully unfounded..it would be taken as an opportunity by the French state to try and launch anti government air strikes . Absolutely zero in the way of blaming Islam or Muslims . Zilch .
And it's the very same here on this thread . You aren't islamophobic and neither am I . Ignore it is my advice .

And for by far the best part of my life , as long as I can remember , I've supported Arab causes . Namely Palestine , Hezbollah, Libya, Syria etc . Stuff i often get a serious amount of grief for on here . So, please try and bear that in mind when your getting stick from a few fuckwits because you've dared..the nerve of you..to attach a few likes to posts you've agreed with .

It's also worth pointing out , as regards to your newness, that you've drawn the attention of a handful of characters who occasionally take it upon themselves to police the board , and who've previously driven off other posters for daring to disagree with them . With similar accusations of being unwitting agents of fascism etc . All nonsense . And the amount of people who rip the piss out of them behind their backs ..well it's a lengthy list . So my advice would be try not to take their admonishments all that seriously . They're testing you out is all .

Hope that's some help .

Btw as regard the fascism stuff, I spent the earlier half of new years eve outside a women's prison on a solidarity demo for a Turkish leftist lady , freezing my nuts off while most sensible people were in a nice warm pub . It's one of the reasons why I'm so angry about this actually . And I've a perfect right to be angry about all if this . Livid in fact .

 

[ViolentPanda]

As a reminder that this creep (CR not VP) is coming from a particularly shady quadrant of the loonosphere, recall once again that he announced on here that he feels he has "more in immediate common, more personal identification with the fash" than with 'lefties' and the like, expended a good deal of energy claiming that raping a sleeping woman isn't really rape and not only backs Argentina's dictatorship but hero worships one of its officers who was stationed at one of the most notorious rape/torture/murder centres. Before wafting in here like a piss stinking bus pest, he racked up 20,000 posts on politics.ie under the name "Merle Haggard" - and a cursory glance at his content shows that it's much the same old empty scrappy doo shouting shit as here only moreish. Loads of violent fantasies, homophobia, more violent fantasies, giddy support for Hezbollah, the Islamic Republic of Iran, jihadis in Iraq, weird stuff about how christians should "give serious consideration to joining the Byzantine tradition and the orthodox faith" because the catholic church is a "corrupt and decadent homosexual death cult" (although this didn't stop him from trying to deploy the few bad apples defence here for the Vatican's paedophilia scandals), a denunciation of snowboarding action man (cos he claims it's a gay), yet more violent fantasies, and so on. In short, I don't know what his motivation for flooding this thread is exactly, but I tend to suspect that someone with such wretched reactionary politics who spends his holidays hanging around with fash and gleefully supports regimes that have subjected women to the most disgusting depths of depravity might not have a particularly well rooted interest in the rights and welfare of women.

(A grass on top of everything else. Politics.ie is a shambles btw, full of CRs and actual scumfronters)

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So all in all, a reactionary wankbag and a dirty stoolie tout?

 

[bimble]

I'm new to internet forums but presume that punch- ups between posters is what happens before a thread dies in a dark dead end because there are no actual ideas about what the fuck to do about a given real problem.

 

[Casually Red]

As a reminder that this creep (CR not VP) is coming from a particularly shady quadrant of the loonosphere, recall once again that he announced on here that he feels he has "more in immediate common, more personal identification with the fash" than with 'lefties' and the like, expended a good deal of energy claiming that raping a sleeping woman isn't really rape and not only backs Argentina's dictatorship but hero worships one of its officers who was stationed at one of the most notorious rape/torture/murder centres. Before wafting in here like a piss stinking bus pest, he racked up 20,000 posts on politics.ie under the name "Merle Haggard" - and a cursory glance at his content shows that it's much the same old empty scrappy doo shouting shit as here only moreish. Loads of violent fantasies, homophobia, more violent fantasies, giddy support for Hezbollah, the Islamic Republic of Iran, jihadis in Iraq, weird stuff about how christians should "give serious consideration to joining the Byzantine tradition and the orthodox faith" because the catholic church is a "corrupt and decadent homosexual death cult" (although this didn't stop him from trying to deploy the few bad apples defence here for the Vatican's paedophilia scandals), a denunciation of snowboarding action man (cos he claims it's a gay), yet more violent fantasies, and so on. In short, I don't know what his motivation for flooding this thread is exactly, but I tend to suspect that someone with such wretched reactionary politics who spends his holidays hanging around with fash and gleefully supports regimes that have subjected women to the most disgusting depths of depravity might not have a particularly well rooted interest in the rights and welfare of women.

(A grass on top of everything else. Politics.ie is a shambles btw, full of CRs and actual scumfronters)

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Oh yeah , I forgot . This ones been following me about for literally years coming out with this stuff .

 

[Casually Red]

I'm new to internet forums but presume that punch- ups between posters is what happens before a thread dies in a dark dead end because there are no actual ideas about what the fuck to do about a given real problem.

It seems that they want, yes .

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Double post

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I'm new to internet forums but presume that punch- ups between posters is what happens before a thread dies in a dark dead end because there are no actual ideas about what the fuck to do about a given real problem.

Or when the people who would like to have a sensible conversation about such things figure they're wasting their time trying to do so on this thread for whatever reason.

 

[bimble]

Or when the people who would like to have a sensible conversation about such things figure they're wasting their time trying to do so on this thread for whatever reason.

I feel that way too. Maybe for different reasons from yours but this thread has totally done my head in, I've woken up at 3am cross about it etc.
It's possible that I've over reacted to to whole story / multiple stories of mass assaults on women in crowded public places due to being female and a bit agoraphobic anyway (not open spaces but dense crowds of people) in the first place.

 

[coley]

While the far right will make hay with this, it isn't a L v R pissing contest, it's a serious problem and needs to be dealt with openly.
But having a heavy police presence at every public gathering isn't going to cure the problem, it's catching the individuals concerned and hammering them, one solution would be the much greater use of CCTV, this in turn could be used to direct extra police to situations before they reach a flashpoint.

 

[Pickman's model]

While the far right will make hay with this, it isn't a L v R pissing contest, it's a serious problem and needs to be dealt with openly.
But having a heavy police presence at every public gathering isn't going to cure the problem, it's catching the individuals concerned and hammering them, one solution would be the much greater use of CCTV, this in turn could be used to direct extra police to situations before they reach a flashpoint.

so greater surveillance to increase freedom. i am not sure that really works. all the evidence shows that extra surveillance is used for minor things, incivilities, and not for major things save in terms of gathering evidence. where are you going to get all the cctv operators to watch all these extra cameras?

you say 'the far right will make hay with this'. yeh. and how's cctv of any future similar event going to prevent that?

 

[coley]

so greater surveillance to increase freedom. i am not sure that really works. all the evidence shows that extra surveillance is used for minor things, incivilities, and not for major things save in terms of gathering evidence. where are you going to get all the cctv operators to watch all these extra cameras?

They manage it here well enough, I don't like CCTV any more than the next person but it beats having scores of heavily armed coppers flooding every public gathering.
But it's just an idea, always open to better ideas.

 

[Pickman's model]

I feel that way too. Maybe for different reasons from yours but this thread has totally done my head in, I've woken up at 3am cross about it etc.

perhaps you've been overdoing the urban if this is the case.

 

[Casually Red]

While the far right will make hay with this, it isn't a L v R pissing contest, it's a serious problem and needs to be dealt with openly.
But having a heavy police presence at every public gathering isn't going to cure the problem, it's catching the individuals concerned and hammering them, one solution would be the much greater use of CCTV, this in turn could be used to direct extra police to situations before they reach a flashpoint.

Germans hate CCTV , and for good reason . They don't like being spied on and the reasons for that are obvious . This diminishes their freedoms , actually scares many of them , and changes their way of life. Their social culture . The whole thing is so fucked up in so many ways .

 

[bimble]

perhaps you've been overdoing the urban if this is the case.

indubitably part of the problem.

 

[Pickman's model]

They manage it here well enough, I don't like CCTV any more than the next person but it beats having scores of heavily armed coppers flooding every public gathering.
But it's just an idea, always open to better ideas.

did you read my post? extra cctv will not prevent this happening again. it will provide evidence for subsequent prosecutions: but IT WILL NOT PREVENT IT HAPPENING AGAIN (in caps for the hard of thinking). it doesn't work well here, except, as i say, IN TERMS OF GATHERING EVIDENCE. and where would you put this cctv? in stations which already have it? in main squares which already have it?

 

[Casually Red]

They manage it here well enough.

No they don't. It's a disgrace and the way people have just accepted it as normal depresses me. I absolutely hate it . It's totally sinister .

 

[coley]

Germans hate CCTV , and for good reason . They don't like being spied on and the reasons for that are obvious . This diminishes their freedoms , actually scares many of them , and changes their way of life. Their social culture . The whole thing is so fucked up in so many ways .

I'd rather have CCTV than hordes of armed coppers ( or worse, self appointed vigilantes) at every music venue or public event, but if people have a better idea?

 

[Casually Red]

While the far right will make hay with this, it isn't a L v R pissing contest, it's a serious problem and needs to be dealt with openly.

True to an extent, but hitlers dead and he definitely isn't coming back . The fear of this " making hay " is totally blown out of proportion . They're incompetent assholes going nowhere . The over inflated fear of what might happen is nothing compared to the reality of what is happening .

 

[Pickman's model]

I'd rather have CCTV than hordes of armed coppers ( or worse, self appointed vigilantes) at every music venue or public event, but if people have a better idea?

it won't make the fucking blindest bit of difference. google "central forensic image team", the police in this country use cctv for after the fact investigation. there's been murders filmed on cctv, james bulger was filmed being led away by his killers, thousands of similar examples - cctv WILL NOT PREVENT A REPETITION OF THIS BUT WILL ONLY FILM IT.

 

[coley]

did you read my post? extra cctv will not prevent this happening again. it will provide evidence for subsequent prosecutions: but IT WILL NOT PREVENT IT HAPPENING AGAIN (in caps for the hard of thinking). it doesn't work well here, except, as i say, IN TERMS OF GATHERING EVIDENCE. and where would you put this cctv? in stations which already have it? in main squares which already have it?

Prevention is better than the cure, mebbes if people know they are under surveillance than they will be more disposed to behave themselves?

From what I've read on here,it's the lack of surveillance cameras that is making it so hard to identify the perpetrators, but like I said, if you, or others have a better solution lets hear it?

IN CAPs EVEN!

 

[Pickman's model]

Prevention is better than the cure, mebbes if people know they are under surveillance than they will be more disposed to behave themselves?

and does the british experience support that? being as thcaere've been murders committed right under cctv cameras?

From what I've read on here,it's the lack of surveillance cameras that is making it so hard to identify the perpetrators, but like I said, if you, or others have a better solution lets hear it?

yeh well if you read uninformed wank then gigo applies.

 

[Casually Red]

I'd rather have CCTV than hordes of armed coppers ( or worse, self appointed vigilantes) at every music venue or public event, but if people have a better idea?

Yeah but the country your from hasn't had much history of the Gestapo , concentration camps and the like . So the implications of creating the apparatus for a surveillance police state dont seem as grave to you . A better idea is to abandon this open borders nonsense now it's absolutely obvious to even the biggest dimwit what the social repercussions of it are . Because they've actually gone and happened .

And as pickmans explained CCTV doesn't stop these things from happening . They just make it a bit easier to secure convictions afterwards . The Cologne atrocities happened right in front of the police . They didn't need CCTV to tell them it was happening .

 

[planetgeli]

I'd rather have CCTV than hordes of armed coppers ( or worse, self appointed vigilantes) at every music venue or public event, but if people have a better idea?

Well up until very recently society managed to get by without any of the options you propose. Amazing to see how easily people get suckered in to the surveillance society. If you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear eh?

 

[bimble]

Germany (I've been told) will not passively stand by and have their public space totally covered with CCTV, not like we have. Just going from what a computer-surveillance knowledgable friend told me, of all of Europe Germany is the place most intent (due to public pressure & interest in the subject) on defending their freedom from surveillance by the state.
Anyway, CCTV is a shit answer, almost as poor as any of the above joke suggestions re curfews and vigilante leftie knights.

 

[Pickman's model]

.

 

[coley]

Germany (I've been told) will not passively stand by and have their public space totally covered with CCTV, not like we have. Just going form what a computer-friend told me that of all of Europe Germany is the place most serious (due to public pressure & interest in the subject) of defending their freedom from surveillance by the state.
Anyway, CCTV is a shit answer, almost as poor as any of the above joke suggestions re curfews and vigilante leftie knights.

CCTV isn't a good answer, I would quite agree,but like I said, lets hear the better ones?
ETCSM

 

[bimble]

CCTV isn't a good answer, I would quite agree,but like I said, lets heard the better ones?

I tried already. Mine is education, compulsory classes for everybody aged above 12 who lives in a relatively sexually liberated country, recent arrivals included. The last time we discussed this the part of the course dealing with women's rights began with a review of key developments in the late 1800's ?

 

[Pickman's model]

I tried already. Mine is education, compulsory classes for everybody aged above 12 who lives in a relatively sexually liberated country, recent arrivals included. The last time we discussed this the part of the course dealing with the history of feminism and women's rights began in the late 1850's.

no it didn't. i said from the publication of 'vindication of the rights of woman' by mary wollstonecraft: so, 1792

e2a: how would you suggest classes are run for new arrivals - many of whom will not have got to grips with strong verbs?

 

[bimble]

no it didn't. i said from the publication of 'vindication of the rights of woman' by mary wollstonecraft: so, 1792

 

[bimble]

Yes. Appologiez. What he said.