ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
If someone other than Diamond had written this, would your reaction be the same? It seems that often he gets a hard time on these boards unnecessarily.
Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations
- Thread starter trashpony
- Start date
If someone other than Diamond had written this, would your reaction be the same? It seems that often he gets a hard time on these boards unnecessarily.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Anyone who wrote this:
Would be called up on it.
Our learned friend seems to be in a somewhat fragile state of late, so perhaps some friendly advice to retire to a fluffier thread would be in order?
Lucy Fur
Well-Known Member
No it would not, and if you check my reaction to Timmy Griffens post you will see that.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
You're comparing Diamonds post to Timmy Griffen's? Really?
I find this really quite astonishing. After Paris Police everywhere were supposed to be on high alert, Germany has had international Football matches cancelled and just down the road in Brussels they even cancelled their NYE celebrations because of the threat of terrorism. Yet at an obvious target, like crowds gathering for NYE, what appears to be mass robbery and sexual violence has occurred and the Police have not only failed to prevent it they appear to have made no arrests and haven't a clue what went on.
Am I missing something here or does anyone else find the apparent ineptitude of the Police quite staggering?
bimble
floofy
One of the articles below must be wrong, right?
This one (published a couple of hours ago, has the police chief saying “We don’t currently have any suspects, so we don’t know who the perpetrators were. .”
[ Officials warn against linking police search for 1,000 men after mass sexual assault to refugees ]
But 2 days ago, this one said “ the police have also insisted that many of the men had been known to them for some time and that they were not a group of newly-arrived refugees."
Cover-up claim over NYE mass sexual assaults
This one (published a couple of hours ago, has the police chief saying “We don’t currently have any suspects, so we don’t know who the perpetrators were. .”
[ Officials warn against linking police search for 1,000 men after mass sexual assault to refugees ]
But 2 days ago, this one said “ the police have also insisted that many of the men had been known to them for some time and that they were not a group of newly-arrived refugees."
Cover-up claim over NYE mass sexual assaults
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
welcome to the wonderful world of police communicationOne of the articles below must be wrong, right?
This one (published a couple of hours ago, has the police chief saying “We don’t currently have any suspects, so we don’t know who the perpetrators were. .”
[ Officials warn against linking police search for 1,000 men after mass sexual assault to refugees ]
But 2 days ago, this one said “ the police have also insisted that many of the men had been known to them for some time and that they were not a group of newly-arrived refugees."
Cover-up claim over NYE mass sexual assaults
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
I suppose if we're being generous, we could imagine that plod had spotted some of the 'usual suspects' around the station but didn't pick any of them up and don't know where they live.One of the articles below must be wrong, right?
This one (published a couple of hours ago, has the police chief saying “We don’t currently have any suspects, so we don’t know who the perpetrators were. .”
[ Officials warn against linking police search for 1,000 men after mass sexual assault to refugees ]
But 2 days ago, this one said “ the police have also insisted that many of the men had been known to them for some time and that they were not a group of newly-arrived refugees."
Cover-up claim over NYE mass sexual assaults
If we were being less generous to the police, we might imagine they said a load of shit in the early hours of the incident in order to make themselves look less incompetent, and now the politicos have come down on them like a ton of bricks and told them to be a bit more careful what they say.
bimble
floofy
I have no clue (obviously) but - as noted earlier- some people (incl. the author of the article below) have "accused the police of covering up details about the suspected criminals in order to protect public order. Questioning why no details were given on the appearance of the suspects when police called for witnesses, despite plentiful CCTV footage, Schunke suggested that police chose to leave important details out so that the public would not make a connection between the crime and refugees.."
Sexuelle Übergriffe in Köln: "Die Medien haben versagt"
Sexuelle Übergriffe in Köln: "Die Medien haben versagt"
There were 16 years of cover-ups and complacency in Rotherham so forgive my scepticism if I regard the vast majority of these media stories with something of a jaundiced eye. The 'truth' is always so contingent on who is doing the telling, to whom and why...but for sure, I find myself unwilling to place myself in any position where I am outnumbered by many groups of men - age, class, nationality does not enter the calculation - simply numbers, sightlines and potential for escape.
To be fair, having no access to full statistics regarding assaults on women and as influenced by propaganda as almost everyone, it may be more of a reflection of my creeping anxieties (and less nimble abilities) rather than anything based on empirical evidence...but nonetheless, I have been far less confident to walk alone at night in the last few years than in the previous 3 decades.
To be fair, having no access to full statistics regarding assaults on women and as influenced by propaganda as almost everyone, it may be more of a reflection of my creeping anxieties (and less nimble abilities) rather than anything based on empirical evidence...but nonetheless, I have been far less confident to walk alone at night in the last few years than in the previous 3 decades.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
Why are you asking me about what someone has said on some other forum??
Why indeed? I take it you disagree with the sentiment quoted, then. Fair enough.
The videos you've posted show an atmosphere far less intimidating than most British city centers on a typical Saturday night.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
Infighting is so 2015.
Your point being?
Do you think this is a particularly Germanic thing? Race or nationality thing? Culture thing? Misogynistic thing? Political thing?
Regardless, I am not aware of late-night mass assaults of women in British city centres...so clearly, there are other variables at play here other than the (ahem) location.
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
Totally weird. On NYE every MSM website was warning us that Germany was was under an acute threat of terrorism, and that authorities had completly closed Munich main station in the evening. Yet in the main station of another major German city a marauding gang of theves and molesters were able to terrorise women for hours and the police say they had no idea it was going on. How the fuck is that even possible?
All the talk of the German old bill needing to come down hard on the perps ffs they need a serious grilling themselves
All the talk of the German old bill needing to come down hard on the perps ffs they need a serious grilling themselves
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bimble
floofy
I don't think the videos are much help. The women who have come forward with bruises all over them from being pushed about and assaulted by the crowd weren't filming on their phones at the time.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
with which you are so familiar after leaving these shores for foreign parts
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
OK. Clearly there is a need for clarification. What Phil was objecting to was the description of the alleged perpetrators by the alleged victims as 'Arab or North Africans'. The underlying motive for doing so, was designed to serve a "racist" agenda was his argument. But if the attackers appearance was surplus to the story, then to be consistent the victims shouldn't have been identified as women either was the point I was trying to make. And if memory serves it was he who introduced the question of 'race', which is why I responded in kind.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
no it isn't.
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
...they'll be in a major brown trouser mode atm trying to contain the fall-out from this clusterfuck....although this may on the whole be preferable to their brown shirt mode...
My point was that racial terms and categories are applied almost exclusively to "minorities." "Whiteness" is the absence of race, as it is the absence of color.
I noted that, when "minorities" commit crimes, their "race" is deemed a relevant and indeed determining factor. In contrast, when "white" people commit crimes, their "race" is not deemed a relevant, far less a determining factor.
That is why "minorities" are generally identified by race in media reports of crime, while "white" people are not. The implicit assumption is that their race caused them to commit the crime. We are currently witnessing a textbook example in the Western public's response to the Cologne incident.
We see an analogous phenomenon when anti-semites identify Jews in positions of wealth or influence while ignoring the religion of similarly-placed Christians.
If the videos CR posted are accurate representations of what happened, then the media response is exaggerated.
But I suspect that his videos are misleading.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Yes, I get that, Phil, but eliding the question of race or nationality is not really a solution either - a bit like the colourblind defence. I agree that it appears inflammatory, including the supposed nationality of the accused perpetrators but in a highly charged situation involving the many, many competing interests and contrary positions regarding the recent influx of refugees (especially the unsolved dilemmas of assimilation, integration, difference), but would prefer the emphasis to be concentrated on women's safety rather than spluttering shouts of racism. It is neither clear nor simple how incidents are reported. I would expect the fallout and continued analysis of this incident to continue over some period of time since it is clearly complex and nothing like a simple us and them, culture shock blah blah.
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But there is no "question of race" objectively speaking. The existence of the "question of race" is itself the result (and a perpetuation) of racism.
Here is the second-century Roman emperor Septimus Severus:
Clearly he is what C21st Americans or Brits would call "a black man." But that's not what he was to his contemporaries, because the concept of "a black man" did not exist. No contemporary account remarks on his skin color, for they didn't regard it as significant. But our modern racist assumptions do regard skin color as significant, they assume that it influences character and behavior, and that is why we mention it. The contexts in which we mention it tell us a great deal about how we regard it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Dresden, Leipzig, Munich - all in the '90s - in Munich attributed to a resentful Ossi community. "Othering" at work.
Sexual assault is most often opportunistic crime on the back of other crimes and/or antisocial behaviour, collectively and individually.
Clearly folk will. Clearly some folk will do so regardless of reality.
It's "frankly bizarre" that, for example, some/many observant male Muslims might have a moral inhibition toward assaulting a woman?
What planet are you on?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Hasn't really improved since then. Back in the '80s the city's panhandlers, pimps and other assorted ne-er-do-wells congregated there. Now there are a lot of tourists.
Sigh - yes, I went to uni too and appreciate the academic debate surrounding 'race'...but to simply disregard this as a philosophical construct with no real world consequences, regardless of how misconstrued, abhorrent or irrelevant is not terribly helpful to the vast majority of people who still feel this to be an essential aspect of their identification - a bit like religion, which also gets a mystifyingly free pass.
Oh, and shifting the debates along more nebulous lines such as 'culture' does little to clarify the enormous power of self-identity along any axis of difference whatsoever...and it certainly does not nullify the arguments that, as human beings, we have different behaviours and attitudes which create tension, There are rabbitholes and minefields...and we are going to fall in them...but we still have to negotiate the terrain.
Oh, and shifting the debates along more nebulous lines such as 'culture' does little to clarify the enormous power of self-identity along any axis of difference whatsoever...and it certainly does not nullify the arguments that, as human beings, we have different behaviours and attitudes which create tension, There are rabbitholes and minefields...and we are going to fall in them...but we still have to negotiate the terrain.
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