Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

[butchersapron]

I must be a liar because of how I keep denying being a returned old poster. The alternative is that butchers apron is wrong and that is obviously just impossible.

Or that that you lie about thinking this story is being hidden by socialists and leftists due to their political correctness - including posters, specific posters at that, on here - but that you openly say this when drunk. That's why you are a liar.

And it keeps happening, over and over doesn't it bimble? So many mistakes, so many misreadings of you. Pull the other one.

 

[Spymaster]

.

 

[Pickman's model]

I must be a liar because of how I keep denying being a returned old poster. The alternative is that butchers apron is wrong and that is obviously just impossible.

or that you're lying about something else.

 

[bimble]

I'm sorry. Can't even begin to imagine what you're going through.

 

[butchersapron]

Shit, I didn't mean to post that about my old man. That was from a draft last night. It's true but please ignore and don't quote.

 

[Spymaster]

Or that that you lie about thinking this story is being hidden by socialists and leftists due to their political correctness - including posters, specific posters at that, on here - but that you openly say this when drunk. That's why you are a liar.

That's not a lie, it's an opinion that you disagree with.

 

[terapija]

no, you're talking bollocks, my darling. this is not the first time the americans have refused to intervene directly in one of the world's many conflicts. for example: the malayan emergency; the falklands war; the insurgency in oman; the franco-prussian war; the boer war; the cod war; the spanish civil war... how are we meant to believe you when you talk such obvious shit?

really

 

[butchersapron]

That's not a lie, it's an opinion that you disagree with.

When they deny they believe it they're lying.

 

[Pickman's model]

really

really

 

[ViolentPanda]

You have no answers for this and wish it would go away. Me too, I wish it would go away and hope we never hear of similar events ever again.
Your attempt to make it go away is to say that it's all the fault of the "anti-leftists"? Please explain what you think happened.

Your problem is that you wouldn't know irony if it tripped you over and licked your face like a soppy mongrel.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm still here and reading.

Can't be bothered to post on it cos of many shouty angry and dismissive men.

What I will say is:

What a fucking *shock* that no men have been arrested and protected for rape, again.

Shocking I tell ya.

And it'll happen again and again, because in every legal jurisdiction I can think of, institutional sexism is rife, and even when the legal functionaries in those jurisdictions are blatantly aware of it, little or nothing gets done.
A small example: Back when Ian Blair (former Met Commissioner) was a relatively-lowly chief inspector, he wrote an interesting paper about the attitudes of police officers to female victims of sexual assault. He concluded that police officers were institutionally-primed to be extremely sceptical about claims of sexual assault from women, and to judge cases on the woman's behaviour and demeanour.
Now, despite knowing this, he did very little to neutralise such attitudes at the Met when he took over, or at Thames Valley when he was Chief Constable.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Nobody's. I apologise for last night, was not exactly sober.

The Spymaster defence.

 

[hot air baboon]

have you ever heard of japanese tourists - or tourists of any nationality, for that matter - going round and robbing and raping women?

...well there was that trip to Nanking that got a bit out of hand...

 

[bimble]

Or that that you lie about thinking this story is being hidden by socialists and leftists due to their political correctness - including posters, specific posters at that, on here - but that you openly say this when drunk. That's why you are a liar.

And it keeps happening, over and over doesn't it bimble? So many mistakes, so many misreadings of you. Pull the other one.

You are a liar, proven now too many times to be an issue. You just reclassify then as mistakes. Over and over. And I still think you're a returning ex poster.

I'm not in a fighting mood today at all but just want to attempt to clarify a tiny bit if i may:

I do not think the story is or was hidden / covered up by socialists in general, or by you or anyone else here.

I do think that the story was repressed at the outset by the powers that be in Germany for fear of it stoking civil unrest / right wing reaction.

I also think that in the weeks that followed many people made the mistake of thinking that the best way to stop this playing into the hands of the far right would be to refuse to discuss any explanation of what happened that placed weight on the issue of where the alleged perpetrators came from - so that anything that you might call a ‘cultural’ attempt to understand what happened, particularly with ref to the sexual assaults - became restricted to the right wing press and people with anti-islam / anti-immigrant agendas to push.
So anyone who wanted to talk about how this mob sexual assault was different, in important ways, from types of sexual assault we are familiar with in Europe (Birmingham on a Saturday night, Oktoberfest, whatever) was doing something morally objectionable and was probably a racist.

This desire to not allow the origin of the perpetrators to be a part of the conversation was, I think, well intentioned but dishonest and cowardly. It often looked like a downplaying of the mob sexual assaults, because it involved attempting to say that this is not really anything out of the ordinary, that nothing new was going on really etc.
I still haven’t got a clue why so many men got together in a big group to sexually assault women, instead of just stealing from them, but I wanted to try to guess at how come this horrible thing happened, what made it possible, look for parallels to help make sense of it, because having no explanation at all for such a phenomenon makes it much more scary.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm not in a fighting mood today at all but just want to attempt to clarify a tiny bit if i may:

I do not think the story is or was hidden / covered up by socialists in general, or by you or anyone else here.

I do think that the story was repressed at the outset by the powers that be in Germany for fear of it stoking civil unrest / right wing reaction.

I also think that in the weeks that followed many people made the mistake of thinking that the best way to stop this playing into the hands of the far right would be to refuse to discuss any explanation of what happened that placed weight on the issue of where the alleged perpetrators came from - so that anything that you might call a ‘cultural’ attempt to understand what happened, particularly with ref to the sexual assaults - became restricted to the right wing press and people with anti-islam / anti-immigrant agendas to push.
So anyone who wanted to talk about how this mob sexual assault was different, in important ways, from types of sexual assault we are familiar with in Europe (Birmingham on a Saturday night, Oktoberfest, whatever) was doing something morally objectionable and was probably a racist.

This desire to not allow the origin of the perpetrators to be a part of the conversation was, I think, well intentioned but dishonest and cowardly. It often looked like a downplaying of the mob sexual assaults, because it involved attempting to say that this is not really anything out of the ordinary, that nothing new was going on really etc.
I still haven’t got a clue why so many men got together in a big group to sexually assault women, instead of just stealing from them, but I wanted to do was try to guess at how come this horrible thing happened, what made it possible, look for parallels to help make sense of it, because having no explanation at all for such a phenomenon makes it much more scary.

yeh cos no one's offered a possible explanation on this thread have they.

 

[bimble]

yeh cos no one's offered a possible explanation on this thread have they.

I totally agree about the organised crime street robbery gang / people smuggling connections that Bernie & others have put forward, that all makes sense, just doesn't help me much with the sexual assault side, which is obviously the bit that scares me.

 

[Pickman's model]

I totally agree about the organised crime street robbery gang / people smuggling connections that Bernie & others have put forward, that all makes sense, just doesn't help me much with the sexual assault side, which is obviously the bit that scares me.

yeh cos no one's offered a possible explanation on this thread have they.

 

[butchersapron]

I presume you mean you hope similar events don't occur again. Not quite the same thing.



I wouldn't bother arguing with this guy. If you ignore him he'll go back to banging on about how much of a bastard Assad is and how it would be much better if Syria turned into a headchoppers' paradise like Libya.

Fucking right. That's what i want. If you are unable to connect your support for the thing producing refugees and refugees presenting danger to you, well who are you? What are you actually saying?

 

[butchersapron]

I presume you mean you hope similar events don't occur again. Not quite the same thing.



I wouldn't bother arguing with this guy. If you ignore him he'll go back to banging on about how much of a bastard Assad is and how it would be much better if Syria turned into a headchoppers' paradise like Libya.

Bet?

 

[Anudder Oik]

oh but that was the cry at the time. 'Merkel opened the borders etc'. But now we find its illegal migrants and people smuggling linked crims from NA. Who've likely been in the region a decade. Doing the same things.
This was deliberately stoked as a syrian refugee problem that lefties were covering up. Now thats proven to be false we are getting was right-to-be-wrongism of the 'ah well far righty nuts aren't going to like it any better that they are largely morrocans and NA folk' . Well no shit sherlock.

So, with 58 arrests for over 800 crimes the case is now closed? Thanks for that as I was really worried that the police weren't going to be able to solve this spate of crimes.

Mind you, it may be that the arrests so far have been based solely on the recuperation of the stolen mobiles being handled by the criminal element and that the sexual perpetrators are a lot harder to trace.

There were 500 of these organized thieves from Tangier doing Barcelona for about 4 years in the 90's. No cases of mass sexual assault. So what has changed?

Anyway, it's case closed.

 

[DotCommunist]

who said case is closed? the eagerness to call it a lefty cover up and all syrian refugees has however, been conclusively proven to be the work of liars. With dodgy motives. More 'i was wrong but right to be wrong'ism is to be expected. When CR comes in tight we can expect a rousing chorus on the same theme can't we.

 

[redsquirrel]

I must be a liar because of how I keep denying being a returned old poster. The alternative is that butchers apron is wrong and that is obviously just impossible.

Fucking hell, you've done it again. It's this bullshit that makes you a liar. That's not what BA said, it's yet another fucking smear. And you know what now I call you a fucking liar too.

When you smeared DC earlier in the thread I was prepared to put that up to quick posting in the heat of the moment, but since then you've repeatedly smeared posters by claiming they've said things they haven't. Again and again and again. When you've done that the number of times you have then I think it's fair to call you a liar.

 

[bluescreen]

Fucking hell, you've done it again. It's this bullshit that makes you a liar. That's not what BA said, it's yet another fucking smear. And you know what now I call you a fucking liar too.

When you smeared DC earlier in the thread I was prepared to put that up to quick posting in the heat of the moment, but since then you've repeatedly smeared posters by claiming they've said things they haven't. Again and agin and again. When you've done that the number of times you have then I think it's fair to call you a liar.

Please wind this back slowly for the hard of hearing.

 

[bimble]

Really can't be arsed to try to defend myself against that - if it makes you feel good to call me 'a fucking liar', on account of how I go around smearing people then, ok.
I've tried hard to explain where i'm coming from and apologised repeatedly when I've gotten all cross & misrepresented people's opinion by quoting them selectively or shouting drunkenly at straw men or whatever. I wish i hadn't come barging back into this toxic thread, keeping out of it was a good plan.

 

[Spymaster]

Really can't be arsed to try to defend myself against that ...

Just ignore it. There are plenty of people reading this who realise it's obvious bollocks.

 

[redsquirrel]

Please wind this back slowly for the hard of hearing.

Bimble has repeatedly misrepresented what other posters have written, not just once or twice but repeatedly, and in the process of these misrepresentations smearing them. For example by implying DotCommunist was willing to look the other way over sexual assaults. That post I quoted was a misrepresentation against BA who clearly said nothing of the sort.

Now bimble claims that these many, many misrepresentations are all by mistake, either because she's posting in hear or when drunk. That could be true, there's no way of proving or disproving it, but when it's happen so many times then I'm inclined to say that these "mistakes" start to look like an excuse to avoid responsibility. How many "mistakes" is a person allowed to make before we start to think something is suss?

 

[Spymaster]

That post I quoted was a misrepresentation against BA who clearly said nothing of the sort.

Butchers clearly didn't claim that she was a returning poster? Is that what you're saying?

 

[bimble]

Yep, maybe i'm a sort of stunt double for casually red, when he's away, and everyone can pile in with their opinions on my dastardly ulterior motives for pages and pages of really interesting fun. Including, i must be lying about not being a returned poster and if so, which one?

 

[redsquirrel]

Butchers clearly didn't claim that she was a returning poster? Is that what you're saying?

No he clearly didn't claim she was a liar because (he thought) she was a returnee. The two claims were distinct.

EDIT: And just to be clear, I've no idea whether bimble is a returner or not, I'm rubbish at spotting these things.

 

[Spymaster]

No he clearly didn't claim she was a liar because (he thought) she was a returnee.

No. That was her being sarcastic.

But I think you probably realise that.