Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

[Spymaster]

Fair enough. "Could be considered" is a bit of a weasel phrase though ...

In fairness, those were my words, paraphrasing.

What he actually said seems to be:

On Monday, Mr Bremer dismissed how his remarks had been reported, saying that the overwhelming majority of those arrested "fall into the general category of refugees".

Should people like that be deferred to when defining the problem?

But he's correct isn't he?

Had they not arbitrarily reclassified Tunisia, Algeria, and Morocco as "safe" there'd be no discussion about this. They are refugees in all but name.

 

[Pickman's model]

In fairness,

words which should be forbidden on urban.

 

[bimble]

I get why people are trying to present in a positive light the news that the people accused of this are not very recent arrivals who've been granted asylum status having fled a warzone, but I think that's very wishful thinking.
Those who came up with 'rapefugees' are not going to have a re-think now that this Bremer has announced that the majority of the accused are not in possession of asylum status, are more likely in Germany 'illegally', are they? I mean, how's that news going to reduce the amount of attacks on kebab shops.

 

[Spymaster]

I get why people are trying to present in a positive light the news that the people accused of this are not very recent arrivals who've been granted asylum status having fled a warzone, but I think that's very wishful thinking.
Those who came up with 'rapefugees' are not going to have a re-think now that this Bremer has announced that the majority of the accused are not in possession of asylum status, are more likely in Germany 'illegally', are they? I mean, how's that news going to reduce the amount of attacks on kebab shops.

Quite. The "Only 3 in 58 from Syria and Iraq" is a complete canard. Nobody in Germany is railing against "people from Syria and Iraq". Their issue is with refugees, and reclassifying those present as 'not refugees' isn't going to change their opinion.

 

[bimble]

Quite. The "Only 3 in 58 from Syria and Iraq" is a complete canard. Nobody in Germany is railing against "people from Syria and Iraq". Their problem is with refugees, and reclassifying those present as 'not refugees' isn't going to change their opinion.

Yep. If anything it looks like bad news (far as i can tell) - that those accused are not recent arrivals with legit asylum status. If they'd identified & caught a load of Japanese tourists or Swiss biker gangs or whatever that would have been good news but this isn't.

 

[sihhi]

Yep. If anything it looks like bad news (far as i can tell) - that those accused are not recent arrivals with legit asylum status. If they'd identified & caught a load of Japanese tourists or Swiss biker gangs or whatever that would have been good news but this isn't.

Am poorly so will write short but why would some other foreigners being responsible be better news?

There appears to be some sort of criminal gangs or nexus based around Maghreb Arabic language and connections.

 

[Spymaster]

If anything it looks like bad news (far as i can tell) - that those accused are not recent arrivals with legit asylum status. If they'd identified & caught a load of Japanese tourists or Swiss biker gangs or whatever that would have been good news but this isn't.

You've got me there.

 

[Pickman's model]

Am poorly so will write short but why would some other foreigners being responsible be better news?

There appears to be some sort of criminal gangs or nexus based around Maghreb Arabic language and connections.

hope you're feeling better soon

 

[bimble]

Am poorly so will write short but why would some other foreigners being responsible be better news?

There appears to be some sort of criminal gangs or nexus based around Maghreb Arabic language and connections.

oh, I just meant that if it had turned out it was japanese tourists who dun it then your second sentence would not make sense and the likes of Pegida would have been disappointed by the news.

 

[Pickman's model]

oh, I just meant that if it had turned out it was japanese tourists who dun it then your second sentence would not make sense and the likes of Pegida would have been disappointed by the news.

have you ever heard of japanese tourists - or tourists of any nationality, for that matter - going round and robbing and raping women?

 

[DotCommunist]

oh but that was the cry at the time. 'Merkel opened the borders etc'. But now we find its illegal migrants and people smuggling linked crims from NA. Who've likely been in the region a decade. Doing the same things.
This was deliberately stoked as a syrian refugee problem that lefties were covering up. Now thats proven to be false we are getting was right-to-be-wrongism of the 'ah well far righty nuts aren't going to like it any better that they are largely morrocans and NA folk' . Well no shit sherlock.

Quite. The "Only 3 in 58 from Syria and Iraq" is a complete canard. Nobody in Germany is railing against "people from Syria and Iraq". Their issue is with refugees, and reclassifying those present as 'not refugees' isn't going to change their opinion.

 

[bimble]

have you ever heard of japanese tourists - or tourists of any nationality, for that matter - going round and robbing and raping women?

nope.

 

[Pickman's model]

nope.

let's leave them out of it then.

 

[butchersapron]

It was a general all-purpose one size fits all apology, for drunkenly trying to start a fight with strawmen / the internet in general, ok?

You claimed that I believed/said/had done things. Not the internet. This weasel apology doesn't help.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Am poorly so will write short but why would some other foreigners being responsible be better news?

There appears to be some sort of criminal gangs or nexus based around Maghreb Arabic language and connections.

A lot of the interpretations I've been seeing in the media and on social media persistently don't seem to want to engage with the facts around street crime gangs, people smuggling, policing issues associated with them nor with endemic trivialising of sexual assault, economic and military contexts of refugee flows and a bunch of other things that it seems pretty obvious from the evidence are at least somewhat central to what occurred.

I'm wondering why that is.

In the case of racist political tendencies, either because they're pushing a nativist agenda, or an islamophobe/hasbara agenda or both, the motivation for persistently ignoring that stuff is fairly clear. They want to froth about threatened white women and degenerate foreigners, and/or claim that muslim=rapist and they want to talk about leftist conspiracies to inflict these things on people and cover them up. So boring stuff about policing issues and street crime (or root-cause analysis that talks about capital and patriarchy and so on) just doesn't get their blood racing or serve their propaganda interests as well as heroic outrage about protecting white women from a horde of drooling foreign beasts.

In the case of some of the liberal types acting that way though, both on here (see below) and around media and social media in general, I'm a bit more puzzled as to what's going on in their heads leading to dismissing the contexts of the attacks. Both the gang context and general context of endemic toleration for some level of sexual assault (all the Oktoberfest stuff) and the capitalist dynamics of refugee flows

edited to add (after checking that I'd remembered the exchanges correctly)

bimble for example, you repeatedly dismissed criminality as a factor but then appeared to back off a bit in that exchange where I was obliged to dig out a bunch of quotes.

I never really understood why you were so initially hostile to examining those aspects though. Do you want to elaborate? You said some stuff about it having 'zero explanatory power' which I think is just obviously false (in the sense that I don't agree with that view), but I didn't follow up at the time.

 

[Pickman's model]

It was a general all-purpose one size fits all apology, for drunkenly trying to start a fight with strawmen / the internet in general, ok?

after all the practice you've had apologising on these boards i thought you'd be good at it by now.

 

[bimble]

You claimed that I believed/said/had done things. Not the internet. This weasel apology doesn't help.

back in a bit to continue the argument but.. I think you accused me last night of being both a liar and a returned banned poster? At least I've confessed to being drunk and trying to pick a fight with anyone who was awake.

 

[Spymaster]

But now we find its illegal migrants and people smuggling linked crims from NA. Who've likely been in the region a decade.

No. They were asylum seekers. Just not from Syria and Iraq.

He said some had entered Germany saying they wanted to apply for asylum while others have formally filed an application.

 

[Pickman's model]

At least I've confessed to being drunk and trying to pick a fight with anyone who was awake.

is that intended to show you in a good light?

 

[butchersapron]

back in a bit to continue the argument but.. I think you accused me last night of being both a liar and a returned banned poster? At least I've confessed to being drunk and trying to pick a fight with anyone who was awake.

You are a liar, proven now too many times to be an issue. You just reclassify then as mistakes. Over and over. And I still think you're a returning ex poster.

 

[terapija]

the first instance americans decide not to intervene directly in one of the worlds many conflicts and europe suddenly descends into parania and xenophobia. just shows how unstable this continent is

 

[Pickman's model]

the first instance americans decide not to intervene directly in one of the worlds many conflicts and europe suddenly descends into parania and xenophobia. just shows how unstable this continent is

don't talk such rot.

 

[Spymaster]

is that intended to show you in a good light?

Honest, at least!

There should be a Godwin's on calling people liars when it's clearly nonsense too.

 

[sim667]

the first instance americans decide not to intervene directly in one of the worlds many conflicts and europe suddenly descends into parania and xenophobia. just shows how unstable this continent is

To be fair it actually seems like the americans are descending into paranoia and xenophobia on europes behalf, judging by Trump and Cruz's policies.

 

[DotCommunist]

No. They were asylum seekers. Just not from Syria and Iraq.

ah right, missed that bit. So the leftist conspiracy of silence and the newly arrived syrians (with thier culture and that) is whats not true then. Whose interests have been served by trying to make those falsehoods true I wonder?

 

[Pickman's model]

Honest, at least!

but wholly honest: or only partially?

 

[terapija]

don't talk such rot.

no, this thread is prime example of that hysteria. habermas is right

 

[Spymaster]

but wholly honest: or only partially?

Certainly wholly honest about being pissed and trying to start a fight with anyone available.

 

[bimble]

I must be a liar because of how I keep denying being a returned old poster. The alternative is that butchers apron is wrong and that is obviously just impossible.

 

[Pickman's model]

no, this thread is prime example of that hysteria. habermas is right

no, you're talking bollocks, my darling. this is not the first time the americans have refused to intervene directly in one of the world's many conflicts. for example: the malayan emergency; the falklands war; the insurgency in oman; the franco-prussian war; the boer war; the cod war; the spanish civil war... how are we meant to believe you when you talk such obvious shit?