Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

[sihhi]

But surely if they are refugees from a war zone those conditions, spartan as they are, are better than what they left behind? At least they're not being shot at or bombed. I don't think that can really serve as mitigation.

The logic here is that whatever happens to refugees away from the country where they face being shot and bombed, is acceptable so long as they are not shot or bombed. They can be imprisoned indefinitely in holding centres (bad) or released into a twilight world all adults working to earn £235 a month to cover housing+food+heating+medicine for seven (good), face arson (bad) or have stones thrown at their windows (good). As long as they are not shot or bombed.

Link explains a successful refugee family, in 2013 their home in Aleppo was bombarded and they aren't sure whether it was the Free Syrian Army or whether it was Syrian Armed Forces that bombed it. Their home was rubble so they moved to a neighbour's home and then moved away from Aleppo to the countryside and to Turkey, because a relative from nearer the border had escaped there recently.

What's interesting in the report is that the family are the most well qualified and skilled, and they are always on edge. Note that even a successful family are counted neither as "foreigners" , nor "migrant workers" nor "refugees" by the government. They are entirely at the mercy of security forces.
They don't cross to Europe because they have something.

The return-to-Turkey argument presupposes that returning, say, a (supposedly bogus) 60% of the 1 million, to Turkey will be better for the international working class. The logic here is that this mass of people, while bad for the lives of European workers, will have a positive effect on workers in Turkey, which itself has around 2.2 million Syrian refugees.
Since January 2015, the border regime between Turkey and Syria has been seriously tightened and the basic requirement is that Syrians must have valid travel documents to enter Turkey.

If there are no demands on the ruling classes of the EU to assist refugees without reducing expenditure on native EU populations to allow the two working-classes to mix properly and healthily (note butchersapron's report saying within a generation, children if not adults grow to have a basically identical "cultural" outlook) the EU will simply give token money to Turkey to accept deportees, and Turkey will correspondingly restrict any entry at all and tighten the noose around its own working-class and the Syrian "underclass" it is hosting, all the while blaming a racist Christian "EU" monster to deflect from its responsibilities.

 

[butchersapron]

Seriously? You must have completely misunderstood me. But in any case i don't think Merkel was reading U75.

Your constant what has the left done? What has the left said? Why is is the left quiet on this? Why aren't the left doing anything? since near the start of the thread is what has allowed the harder pure anti-immigration or openly racist voices to say see, we were right all along, we told you that the state and its institutions had been captured by an elite of cultural marxists who are hell bent on destroying european civilisation and selling out children to the barbarians - it's the lefts fault and we have to do something about them . What's happened here with CR cooking you and other lobsters slowly has also happened on a larger scale out in the non-u75 world. Thus giving people like merkel and others both the political space and the motivation to do what you outlined above. There were other ways to discuss this, in class terms, of capitals plans or potential conflicts within different sectors or regional blocs of capital, of historic and potential class reactions responses and demands (ideally or already happening) to both the plans of capital and the range of effects of large scale immigration economically, culturally and so on. But no, we got the left the left the left.

The european far-right is literally saying now that their day has finaly come, that their logic has seized the everyday language of people and their ideas are finally starting to hegemonise the way politics and political discussion is carried out and how its expressed culturally. This was their plan all along - they said it from the mid-late 70s onwards, they declared it for all to see. The Identitarian Movement is loving all this cover.

 

[Pickman's model]

/

 

[Anudder Oik]

You've been one of those people attempting to pin this on liberal and leftists.

The rest of that post has nothing to do with what i posted. But it does highlight exactly how the whipping up of that sort of atmosphere has damaging practical real life effects on 100s of thousands of people who had nothing to do with or did not support the assaults. So well done all you lot.

We are seeing a pattern where anyone from liberal to anti-capitalist who talks about Cologne automatically refers to other scenarios, such as Oktoberfest or Birmingham high street as if NYE were part of an already ongoing narrative. This comparison is not entirely wrong but does nothing to address the massive alarm caused by NYE, which looks to be polarizing opinions in Germany and across europe. Outside of politically disciplined circles the comparison will look clumsy or even be seen as obfuscation.

Is there an Oktoberfest crisis?
Is there a Birmingham high street crisis?

Feminists need to first frontally attack this new extreme misogyny (demanding more arrests) and then turn it into a broader campaign against all forms of harrasment and sexism, but they need to get to grips with NYE first as it is where everyone is focussed right now. Whoever doesn't focus here loses credibility and allows the far right a free hand.

 

[sihhi]

The people trying to 'pin this' on liberals or leftists are not concerned with the nuances of how people have responded to the news from NYE they have been busy all month blaming the events on Merkel I think. And she seems to have responded to that now by announcing changes to Germany's policy including putting Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia on a list of “safe countries of origin” – meaning that migrants from those countries will have almost no chance of winning asylum.Germany tightens refugee policy as Finland joins Sweden in deportations

Merkel counts as a liberal or a leftist according to this viewpoint - actual leftists are bashed as a result of her poliicies.
In Morocco where most try to cross into Spain there are those swept up in anti-terrorism efforts or measures to suppress the Sahrawi and democracy movements, who are in need of asylum, plus there thousands of Syrians and some Libyans and Yemenis in Morocco. The German plan will block off anyone who has set in foot in Morocco, or who was born in transit to parents who stepped foot there. Likewise Algeria and Tunisia there are many many more Libyan refugees than in Morocco. The situation mirrors Turkey in that the people are not registered as refugees so the numbers look very small according to official figures, but the impacts will be severe.

To force through the shift, Germany will inevitably swing to reinforcing the militarisation of the operation, through FRONTEX

http://euromedrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/REMDH-Frontexit-EN-FINAL.pdf

in particular strategy 5 in the factsheet above:-

5- Frontex deploys staff outside of the EU to control borders further away. As of December 2015, a Frontex officer will be permanently based in the premises of the EU’s delegation in Ankara (Turkey). Information exchange and “operational cooperation” on migration movements and border controls are key in Frontex’s mission. This immigration liaison officer is thus a full-fledged element of the EU’s externalisation policy, beyond judicial oversight by the EU member states and states with which they cooperate.

FRONTEX might well repeat the situation in Turkey in the Maghreb countries aswell.

 

[seventh bullet]

well perhaps it wasn't page 100 but theres a series of posts by some very dodgy cunt going by the name of theoden on this thread. Ecstatic in his backing of you. Fell over himself to endorse your posts. Very revealing i'd say. Being backed up enthusiasticaly by some fash troll. Didn't you do well there.

He's basically fash. He'll eventually let some shit out that he can't come back from. For all his whinging about being picked on by 'liberals' and 'lefty poseurs' and 'middle class wankers' (a sentiment I agree with when deployed properly) it probably annoys him that it's ordinary people pointing out that he's a twat who should fuck off and martyr himself in Novorossiya.

 

[Pickman's model]

He's basically fash. He'll eventually let some shit out that he can't come back from. For all his whinging about being picked on by 'liberals' and 'lefty poseurs' and 'middle class wankers' (a sentiment I agree with when deployed properly) it probably annoys him that it's ordinary people pointing out that he's a twat who should fuck off and martyr himself in Novorossiya.

(((novorossiya)))

 

[andysays]

Seriously? You must have completely misunderstood me. But in any case i don't think Merkel was reading U75.

I'm just about prepared to believe you haven't been deliberately attempting to pin this on liberal and leftist, but you do seem to have uncritically swallowed the bullshit of those who have, and to now be repeating and regurgitated it as established fact.

 

[bimble]

Your constant what has the left done? What has the left said? Why is is the left quiet on this? Why aren't the left doing anything? since near the start of the thread is what has allowed the harder pure anti-immigration or openly racist voices to say see, we were right all along

That makes no sense at all.
I have been asking 'what is the left's response' since the start because it was blindingly obvious that this story would lead to a swing to the right in the absence of a coherent honest and dare I say it loudly unequivocally feminist response to the news from people who want to prevent that happening.

 

[Pickman's model]

That makes no sense at all.
I have been asking 'what is the left's response' since the start because it was blindingly obvious that this story would lead to a swing to the right in the absence of a coherent honest and dare I say it loudly unequivocally feminist response to the news from people who want to prevent that happening.

do you see the issue right at the heart of your post?

 

[Pickman's model]

That makes no sense at all.
I have been asking 'what is the left's response' since the start because it was blindingly obvious that this story would lead to a swing to the right in the absence of a coherent honest and dare I say it loudly unequivocally feminist response to the news from people who want to prevent that happening.

what makes you think the terms feminist and left are interchangeable?

 

[Pickman's model]

bimble come on, it's not like i've asked you to explain the qabalistick significance of 93, is it?

 

[Sweet FA]

Seriously? You must have completely misunderstood me

You went on and on about how it was being ignored by the left wing press and that it was only the DM/Telegraph etc who were writing about it. Someone (sihhi?) then gave you about 10 links to which you just said 'oh I must have missed those' (they were mainstream and easily googleable btw).

It reminds me of when the Sun or whatever print shouty bollocks on the front page, get busted for it and then apologise in 2 lines on page 28. It's part of the constant noise and repetition; it's why conversations at work or wherever are difficult to have sometimes - people quote utter shite that is clearly shite but has been repeated so many times, it's accepted as gospel.

 

[treelover]

the strasserite leaning fuck you are. Over and over.If the jackboot fits, and it does, you will have to wear it.

Quite an accusation that.

 

[treelover]

So I read that Jess Phillips said that the attacks in Cologne were no different to a night out in Birmingham.

Saw that, really shocking,

 

[treelover]

You've been one of those people attempting to pin this on liberal and leftists.

The rest of that post has nothing to do with what i posted. But it does highlight exactly how the whipping up of that sort of atmosphere has damaging practical real life effects on 100s of thousands of people who had nothing to do with or did not support the assaults. So well done all you lot.

Blimey, a few posts on a obscure site challenging the way the left may or may not have responded to events in Cologne has led to very severe policy changes.I would say the way Mother unilaterally declared open borders with no safe guards is why we are returning to Fortress Europe.

 

[Pickman's model]

Blimey, a few posts on a obscure site challenging the way the left may or may not have responded to events in Cologne has led to very severe policy changes.I would say the way Mother unilaterally declared open borders with no safe guards is why we are returning to Fortress Europe.

i always enjoy reading your superficial analyses. perhaps you should check the chronology of events you daft twat.

 

[DotCommunist]

mother? is that you dear?

 

[treelover]

We are seeing a pattern where anyone from liberal to anti-capitalist who talks about Cologne automatically refers to other scenarios, such as Oktoberfest or Birmingham high street as if NYE were part of an already ongoing narrative. This comparison is not entirely wrong but does nothing to address the massive alarm caused by NYE, which looks to be polarizing opinions in Germany and across europe. Outside of politically disciplined circles the comparison will look clumsy or even be seen as obfuscation.

Is there an Oktoberfest crisis?
Is there a Birmingham high street crisis?

Feminists need to first frontally attack this new extreme misogyny (demanding more arrests) and then turn it into a broader campaign against all forms of harrasment and sexism, but they need to get to grips with NYE first as it is where everyone is focussed right now. Whoever doesn't focus here loses credibility and allows the far right a free hand.

I have two elderly female friends who you could say are on the left, both say as a consequence of what they have heard about Cologne, they are more nervous of going to city, etc, They have never been on Urban, etc.

 

[Anudder Oik]

You went on and on about how it was being ignored by the left wing press and that it was only the DM/Telegraph etc who were writing about it. Someone (sihhi?) then gave you about 10 links to which you just said 'oh I must have missed those' (they were mainstream and easily googleable btw).

It reminds me of when the Sun or whatever print shouty bollocks on the front page, get busted for it and then apologise in 2 lines on page 28. It's part of the constant noise and repetition; it's why conversations at work or wherever are difficult to have sometimes - people quote utter shite that is clearly shite but has been repeated so many times, it's accepted as gospel.

Nearly all the links provided above from so called left or liberal press, make the cringing oktoberfest comparison (blatant whataboutery). The one from the Observer talks about immigration in general, and now we have Birmingham high street touted on the TV. Hardly taking the NYE events seriously, is it?

You would think that with so much evidence of left and liberal interest in the theme there would be a credible progressive narrative by now.

If it had been football hooligans running amok, there would be, without a doubt, much more analysis, shouting and demnands for the culprits to be brought to justice., However, things seem quite calm given the nature of the events.

Believing that 3 or 4 posters on this thread pose a threat to the left by asking dissenting questions is just sectarian bollox, more smoke and whistles.

If you desent you are labelled, once labelled you are expelled. That's how the sectarian mindset works.

What influential progressive groups do the 4 or 5 posters baying for CR's blood represent?

 

[Pickman's model]

Nearly all the links provided above from so called left or liberal press, make the cringing oktoberfest comparison (blatant whataboutery). The one from the Observer talks about immigration in general, and now we have Birmingham high street touted on the TV. Hardly taking the NYE events seriously, is it?

You would think that with so much evidence of left and liberal interest in the theme there would be a credible progressive narrative by now.

If it had been football hooligans running amok, there would be, without a doubt, much more analysis, shouting and demnands for the culprits to be brought to justice., However, things seem quite calm given the nature of the events.

Believing that 3 or 4 posters on this thread pose a threat to the left by asking dissenting questions is just sectarian bollox, more smoke and whistles.

If you desent you are labelled, once labelled you are expelled. That's how the sectarian mindset works.

What influential progressive groups do the 4 or 5 posters baying for CR's blood represent?

it would be nice if you revisited the chronology of events because right now your 'merkel brought them all to europe' is looking as truthful as tony blair's 'we had to bomb kosovo to stop the yugoslavs killing kosovans'.

 

[Pickman's model]

Nearly all the links provided above from so called left or liberal press, make the cringing oktoberfest comparison (blatant whataboutery). The one from the Observer talks about immigration in general, and now we have Birmingham high street touted on the TV. Hardly taking the NYE events seriously, is it?

You would think that with so much evidence of left and liberal interest in the theme there would be a credible progressive narrative by now.

If it had been football hooligans running amok, there would be, without a doubt, much more analysis, shouting and demnands for the culprits to be brought to justice., However, things seem quite calm given the nature of the events.

Believing that 3 or 4 posters on this thread pose a threat to the left by asking dissenting questions is just sectarian bollox, more smoke and whistles.

If you desent you are labelled, once labelled you are expelled. That's how the sectarian mindset works.

What influential progressive groups do the 4 or 5 posters baying for CR's blood represent?

brave sir robin

 

[Greebozz]

Even I feel this is slightly puerile

 

[seventh bullet]

Quite an accusation that.

Not really. You haven't seen the Ukraine thread. Casually Red-Brown is pretty close given how this politics has reclothed itself.

 

[Pickman's model]

fuck off you dull cunt

 

[butchersapron]

View attachment 82794 Even I feel this is slightly puerile

Take this shit off the thread/boards. And preferably yourself as well.

 

[DotCommunist]

View attachment 82794

nice. That scene, for non Game of Thrones watchers is actually a load of freed slaves who see the 'khaleesi' as a saviour and basically think she's great for freeing them and killing the Masters. But, its a load of brown people with hands out to a very pale blonde beautiful woman. So the meaning is twisted here to suit an agenda. funny, a little microcosm of the whole thread. God knows what cesspit you dragged that nasty bit of agit prop from

e2a I had a look to check I was remembering the image correctly:

The only misstep was the clunky execution of Daenerys’ messianic veneration in the closing moments.

Game of Thrones – “Mhysa” (Season 3, Episode 10)
so yes I was.

 

[ViolentPanda]

We are seeing a pattern where anyone from liberal to anti-capitalist who talks about Cologne automatically refers to other scenarios, such as Oktoberfest or Birmingham high street as if NYE were part of an already ongoing narrative. This comparison is not entirely wrong but does nothing to address the massive alarm caused by NYE, which looks to be polarizing opinions in Germany and across europe. Outside of politically disciplined circles the comparison will look clumsy or even be seen as obfuscation.

Is there an Oktoberfest crisis?
Is there a Birmingham high street crisis?

Feminists need to first frontally attack this new extreme misogyny (demanding more arrests) and then turn it into a broader campaign against all forms of harrasment and sexism, but they need to get to grips with NYE first as it is where everyone is focussed right now. Whoever doesn't focus here loses credibility and allows the far right a free hand.

That isn't a frontal attack. A frontal attack would be women able to chin/mace/headcrack their harassers and not being nicked for it, if the harassment warranted it. "Demanding more arrests" is about as useful as tickling your own nipples - it doesn't work. Campaigning only works if you've either got lots of money or lots of media attention. Feminists of all stripes have campaigned for at least a century and a half. Where has it gotten them, when they've campaigned nicely?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Blimey, a few posts on a obscure site challenging the way the left may or may not have responded to events in Cologne has led to very severe policy changes.I would say the way Mother unilaterally declared open borders with no safe guards is why we are returning to Fortress Europe.

Merkel didn't do any such thing. She said no such thing.
She was, however, reported to have said such a thing, once the media had selectively quoted and de-contextualised what she actually said (as I explained last week).

 

[ViolentPanda]

I have two elderly female friends who you could say are on the left, both say as a consequence of what they have heard about Cologne, they are more nervous of going to city, etc, They have never been on Urban, etc.

Perhaps your leftish elderly female friends could avail themselves of the many analyses of "fear of crime" (for the UK or for other European states) that show categorically that it exceeds actual crime. Where I live (Tulse Hill in Lambeth) most local surveys show that about 60% of the population fear "crime against the person". Actual figures for crimes against the person round here (even taking into account the kiddie/young adult gangs) runs at under 10%.
If they're nervous, it's because no-one, especially not the media, is setting them straight about reality.