Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

[J Ed]

So I read that Jess Phillips said that the attacks in Cologne were no different to a night out in Birmingham.

 

[J Ed]

 

[bimble]

The wiki text says 500 but 2 of the 3 sources say 150, the other says 400 to 500 but with no source for the quote
Polizei spricht von Ablenkungsmanövern: Junge Frauen in Bielefeld von Antanz-Dieben sexuell belästigt
Köln: Mehr als 100 Anzeigen nach Übergriffen an Silvester
say 150

Boulevard: Erschreckender Bericht eines Türstehers zu den Silvestervorgängen
says 400 to 500

wiki being editable by anyone is always dubious and I don't have the time or language skills to check the websites, my German is just about good enough to decipher those articles with a little help but not to check exactly what those sites are, though they look reasonably legitimate, so I'm going with 150, not 500.

I've promised myself to try to stay off this thread but.. check the dates on the articles (as of course the numbers have grown with time).
Wiki seems to have a decent overview of that confusing process here:

'The next day it was reported that the number had risen to 653, but a correction later that day set the number at 561. According to the department of public prosecution there has been a transmission error ("Übermittlungsfehler").[44][45] By 14 January, the number rose again to 652,[46] by 15 January to 676 complaints, 347 of these including sexual offences.[7] As of 19 January the number was 766 complaints,[9] rising to 821 on 21 January, including 359 sexual offences.[22] The number of victims is higher, as some complaints included more than one victim: 1,049 people were affected in total.[7][9][22] 3 women were allegedly raped.[6][9][47] Some complaints also include the allegation of denial of assistance against some policemen ..'

 

[butchersapron]

So I read that Jess Phillips said that the attacks in Cologne were no different to a night out in Birmingham.

To make the point that the assaults/baiting etc are more widespread than many realise, not to say they're 'no worse' from my watching/reading of it.

 

[Pickman's model]

I've promised myself to try to stay off this thread but..

you see, that's where you're going wrong. rather than promising yourself to stay off the thread you are merely promising to try to stay off the thread. a half-hearted and frankly mealy-mouthed promise. try promising not only yourself but also everyone else on this thread that you will ignore the thread (thread tools at top of page): you may find that effort crowned by success.

 

[J Ed]

To make the point that the assaults/baiting etc are more widespread than many realise, not to say they're 'no worse' from my watching/reading of it.

That would be a reasonable point, and perhaps that is what she meant to say, but what she said came across to me as a direct comparison to me.

 

[BigTom]

I've promised myself to try to stay off this thread but.. check the dates on the articles (as of course the numbers have grown with time).
Wiki seems to have a decent overview of that confusing process here:

'The next day it was reported that the number had risen to 653, but a correction later that day set the number at 561. According to the department of public prosecution there has been a transmission error ("Übermittlungsfehler").[44][45] By 14 January, the number rose again to 652,[46] by 15 January to 676 complaints, 347 of these including sexual offences.[7] As of 19 January the number was 766 complaints,[9] rising to 821 on 21 January, including 359 sexual offences.[22] The number of victims is higher, as some complaints included more than one victim: 1,049 people were affected in total.[7][9][22] 3 women were allegedly raped.[6][9][47] Some complaints also include the allegation of denial of assistance against some policemen ..'

6th and 10th January - and specifically talking about the number of men in Bielefield, not about the number of complaints everywhere. Later quote unsourced. Earlier numbers from the police, not a big time difference between them. Nothing more recent I can see so I feel like the higher number has bounced out of the far right echo chamber tbh.

 

[bimble]

talking about the number of men in Bielefield, not about the number of complaints everywhere.

ok sorry i misunderstood.

 

[Pickman's model]

ok sorry i misunderstood.

you're not doing well at this ignore thread bit

 

[bimble]

 

[redsquirrel]

That would be a reasonable point, and perhaps that is what she meant to say, but what she said came across to me as a direct comparison to me.

Nah, it's a 60 second clip so I might be missing some context but my reading is the same as BA, she's not downplaying the incidents in Cologne just (correctly) pointing out that sexual/physical violence against women is a day-to-day occurrence and occurs across cultures.

 

[butchersapron]

That would be a reasonable point, and perhaps that is what she meant to say, but what she said came across to me as a direct comparison to me.

Well, i would suggest that's the sort of ungenerous reading that easily comes about when an atmosphere of liberal and leftist baiting has been allowed to develop unchecked and move beyond just the established far-right crowds.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I've been openly accused of it a number of times on here, and it's been liked by your clique , and well you know it . But I'm merely "a card carrying fronter" then according to you and your mates this week . Again .

Wanna show me where I've said that about you, jug-ears?
Or is this another case of you interpreting something to have a meaning that suits your thesis?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Hello all, another new member here. Been reading this discussion with interest. Two words: alcohol and porn. (I think they've been discussed already.) Most of what these young men think they know about Western women comes from watching porn, and many of them will be drinking alcohol for the first time in their lives. Bad situation. I'm hopeful that this won't happen again, as German Muslims and liberals educate the new arrivals about correct behaviour and attitudes.

The focus on Islam and Arab culture is a distraction IMHO.

Most of those young men won't be experiencing alcohol "for the first time" in Germany. Alcohol is reasonably available in most states where Islam is the main religion, except Saudi.

 

[ViolentPanda]

One would have hoped so! But apparently not.

Look, you need to understand . The cool kids who live on the Internet have decided among themselves that officially I'm a secret " narzi " . A proper one . Despite the fact that even immigrant workers in my factory have my home number for emergency call outs . And that's been done, and dusted .
And they're far too down the rabbit hole to ever pull back . So they'll peruse this to the...extremely bitter ..end . Come what may . So you may as well pull up a deck chair and open a tin .

Talking to yourself again?

 

[ViolentPanda]

So I read that Jess Phillips said that the attacks in Cologne were no different to a night out in Birmingham.

If she actually said that, in the context implied, then I hope she gets chinned by an irate feminist.

 

[Pickman's model]

If she actually said that, in the context implied, then I hope she gets chinned by an irate feminist.

just gets chinned by a feminist would do me

 

[hot air baboon]

Nah, it's a 60 second clip so I might be missing some context but my reading is the same as BA, she's not downplaying the incidents in Cologne just (correctly) pointing out that sexual/physical violence against women is a day-to-day occurrence and occurs across cultures.

...it could also be read as an evasive and diversionary rhetorical tactic often referred to as whataboutery which invariably amounts to the admission "...I really don't want to talk about this subject...."

( ftr : I didn't watch QT & haven't even clicked the link yet )

 

[bimble]

She said "A very similar situation to what happened in Cologne could be described on Broad Street in Birmingham, every week,"
and then the next thing she said was
"Now we have to attack what we perceive as patriarchal culture, coming into any culture that isn't patriarchal, and making sure we tell people not to be like that," .

(So, not even worth chinning far as i can see just a fool trying to get a round of applause any which way or both ways)

 

[Orang Utan]

Is there any culture that isn't patriarchal?

 

[butchersapron]

She said "A very similar situation to what happened in Cologne could be described on Broad Street in Birmingham, every week," and then the next thing she said was
"Now we have to attack what we perceive as patriarchal culture, coming into any culture that isn't patriarchal, and making sure we tell people not to be like that," she said.

(So, not even worth chinning far as i can see just a fool trying to get a round of applause any which way or both ways)

...and she then extended her point about the widespread nature of various assaults on women across europe to highlight that at the other end of the scale from verbal assaults she frst talked of (and faced herself, see the rape threats thrown at her for challenging the idea of international mens day) are two murders of women in this country every single week.

The attempts to pin this on liberals or leftists is getting pretty desperate, this one really is scraping the bottom of the barrel. In fact, i think we're in the charlie hebdo situation now, where knee-jerk accusations of racism aimed at the mag were shown to be embarrassingly ill-informed misunderstandings of the various cartoons, contexts and history, led to those knee-jerkers now running around jumping on every single thing they publish in order to turn the clock back and prove them right on their original accusations. After the overturning of the claims about no liberal or leftists publications covering this story yesterday i think we're now seeing that same sort of hunt being played out once more.

 

[Pickman's model]

Is there any culture that isn't patriarchal?

matriarchal cultures would leap to mind

 

[bimble]

The attempts to pin this on liberals or leftists is getting pretty desperate, this one really is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

The people trying to 'pin this' on liberals or leftists are not concerned with the nuances of how people have responded to the news from NYE they have been busy all month blaming the events on Merkel I think. And she seems to have responded to that now by announcing changes to Germany's policy including putting Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia on a list of “safe countries of origin” – meaning that migrants from those countries will have almost no chance of winning asylum.Germany tightens refugee policy as Finland joins Sweden in deportations

 

[Orang Utan]

matriarchal cultures would leap to mind

Such as?

 

[hot air baboon]

mumsnet

 

[butchersapron]

The people trying to 'pin this' on liberals or leftists are not concerned with the nuances of how people have responded to the news from NYE they have been busy all month blaming the events on Merkel I think. And she seems to have responded to that now by announcing changes to Germany's policy including putting Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia on a list of “safe countries of origin” – meaning that migrants from those countries will have almost no chance of winning asylum.Germany tightens refugee policy as Finland joins Sweden in deportations

You've been one of those people attempting to pin this on liberal and leftists.

The rest of that post has nothing to do with what i posted. But it does highlight exactly how the whipping up of that sort of atmosphere has damaging practical real life effects on 100s of thousands of people who had nothing to do with or did not support the assaults. So well done all you lot.

 

[Pickman's model]

Such as?

6 Modern Societies Where Women Literally Rule

if you want people to take you seriously as a librarian you must be able to demonstrate advanced search skills. or search skills more advanced than those of the people you're demonstrating them to anyway.

 

[Orang Utan]

6 Modern Societies Where Women Literally Rule

A tiny amount of societies who haven't had much contact with the rest of the world and none of them in the Western world.

 

[Pickman's model]

A tiny amount of societies who haven't had much contact with the rest of the world and none of them in the Western world.

yes. what's your point?

 

[bimble]

You've been one of those people attempting to pin this on liberal and leftists.

The rest of that post has nothing to do with what i posted. But it does highlight exactly how the whipping up of that sort of atmosphere has damaging practical real life effects on 100s of thousands of people who had nothing to do with or did not support the assaults. So well done all you lot.

Seriously? You must have completely misunderstood me. But in any case i don't think Merkel was reading U75.