Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

[bimble]

Where do they cite the Cologne police saying this? 800 figure?

"The number of complaints of sexual assault in and around the main station in Cologne that night now stands at more than 820."
German carnivals give refugees rulebook after mass sex attacks

But I don't know where the extra 300 came from since yesterdays reports where the number was 359.

 

[butchersapron]

Ah, the thread becomes all about CR again? I hate it that he has been the one standing here shouting loudest about 'women's rights', but it's been kind of lonely here and he's been stoic in the face of many well-meaning attempts to claim that this is actually some sort of non-story, something concocted by the far right, that it's just what happens at drunken celebrations , that we have to wait and see if the police arrest more than one person before we can speak about this or whatever.

The socialist news is .. this thing: New Year’s Eve in Cologne, Germany: Growing inconsistencies - World Socialist Web Site

If you want to follow him down the cesspit then yes, of course you're going to get covered in shit. You seem to be rather happy at having to swim in this stuff at times though.

The socialist news? A group with about a 100 members worldwide with no media profile whatsoever beyond being tagged as ideologically driven loons.

 

[butchersapron]

"The number of complaints of sexual assault in and around the main station in Cologne that night now stands at more than 820."
German carnivals give refugees rulebook after mass sex attacks

That link doesn't do what i said - it baldly states, with no citation or sources that "The number of complaints of sexual assault in and around the main station in Cologne that night now stands at more than 820." - you claimed they were "publishing the latest figures from the Cologne Police (which state that over 800 sexual assaults have now been reported to police from that night " - that's not true is it? You can now move onto the DM one that deliberately confuses the same number but at least recognises this is SA+robbery.

 

[bimble]

If you want to follow his down the cesspit then yes, of course you're going to get covered in shit. Yo seem to be rather happy at having to swim in this stuff at times though.

Not exactly happy but I take your point.

The socialist news? A group with about a 100 members worldwide with no media profile whatsoever beyond being tagged as ideologically driven loons.

Good. That piece of shit article was posted here a couple of days ago in all earnestness.

 

[butchersapron]

Not exactly happy but I take your point.

Good. That piece of shit article was posted here a couple of days ago in all earnestness.

It was posted here for translation of direct sources - not for you to try and smear socialists.

 

[bimble]

That link doesn't do what i said - it baldly states, with no citation or sources that "The number of complaints of sexual assault in and around the main station in Cologne that night now stands at more than 820." - you claimed they were "publishing the latest figures from the Cologne Police (which state that over 800 sexual assaults have now been reported to police from that night " - that's not true is it? You can now move onto the DM one that deliberately confuses the same number but at least recognises this is SA+robbery.

Yes. It is confusing. Maybe that was a .. mistake, in the ES and then replicated elsewhere. I'll revert to yesterday's (more solid) figure then 520 sexual assaults reported.

 

[bimble]

It was posted here for translation of direct sources - not for you to try and smear socialists.

It was posted here by someone who thought it was a good article. I'm sorry about misnaming the website though, didn't mean to slur anybody, apart from the author of that piece of writing.

 

[BigTom]

"The number of complaints of sexual assault in and around the main station in Cologne that night now stands at more than 820."
German carnivals give refugees rulebook after mass sex attacks

But I don't know where the extra 300 came from since yesterdays reports where the number was 359.

I think it's sloppy journalism and the 820 refers to robbery and sexual assualt as in this daily mail article from 2 days ago ("more than 520 sexual assaults"). This daily mail article from today says something similar but in an ambiguous way:

The cities are on edge after mass sexual assaults by immigrants against hundreds of women on New Year's Eve in Cologne. The number of complaints resulting from the frenzy in and around the main station now stands at over 820.

Which I reckon the ES journo has cribbed and not seen the (I would assume intentional) ambiguity in the sentences, changed it a little and fucked it up.

 

[BigTom]

That link doesn't do what i said - it baldly states, with no citation or sources that "The number of complaints of sexual assault in and around the main station in Cologne that night now stands at more than 820." - you claimed they were "publishing the latest figures from the Cologne Police (which state that over 800 sexual assaults have now been reported to police from that night " - that's not true is it? You can now move onto the DM one that deliberately confuses the same number but at least recognises this is SA+robbery.

She didn't, but I did. You're always one step ahead BA

 

[butchersapron]

Yes. It is confusing. Maybe that was a .. mistake, in the ES and then replicated elsewhere. I'll revert to yesterday's (more solid) figure then 539 sexual assaults reported.

Hang on, never mind confusing - this is a function of how this stuff gets started - a 300% increase reported as fact and then repeated over and over. A 539 national figure reported as Cologne alone. And over and over.

 

[bimble]

It should not be left to the bloody DM to transmit this information though, should it.

 

[butchersapron]

It should not be left to the bloody DM to transmit this information though, should it.

It's not your job to unquestioningly repeat their deliberate misreporting either (or others with far murkier agendas). Who would you prefer of the major socialist new sources to break this news?

 

[bimble]

It's not your job to unquestioningly repeat their deliberate misreporting either (or others with far murkier agendas). Who would you prefer of the major socialist new sources to break this news?

When I re-posted that figure did hedge it with "I have no clue where the extra 300 came from since yesterday but this is what's being said now".

I would prefer it if this subject was not left entirely to the right wing & loon sites is all.

 

[butchersapron]

When I re-posted that figure did hedge it with "I have no clue where the extra 300 came from since yesterday but this is what's being said now".

I would prefer it if this subject was not left entirely to the right wing & loon sites is all.

Yet you're happy to engage and further a narrative designed pretty much to either sideline any left-wing view being expressed as they're all liberal pussies. It's why there's a about 6 people on this thread - the leads being a liberal and a third positionist.

 

[bimble]

Yet you're happy to engage and further a narrative designed pretty much to either sideline any left-wing view being expressed as they're all liberal pussies. It's why there's a about 6 people on this thread - the leads being a liberal and a third positionist.

What is the left wing view on this? Please tell me.

It's really hard to find any proper figures on NYE in Cologne. How many people have filed complaints, what for, if any more than one person has yet been arrested / charged. It'll die soon anyway, as a story, all that will be left are the ripples made by the far right so not to worry.

 

[BigTom]

What is the left wing view on this? Please tell me.

It's really hard to find any proper figures on NYE in Cologne. How many people have filed complaints, what for, how many people have been arrested / charged. It'll die soon anyway, as a story, all that will be left are the ripples made by the right so not to worry.

From the WSWS article, figures from 21st Jan (probably actually 20th Jan I guess):

On Thursday, the North Rhine-Westphalia committee on internal affairs met once again. In preparation for the meeting, North-Rhine Westphalia’s Interior Minister Ralf Jäger (SPD) submitted a 34-page report. He also answered 19 pages of questions from the state parliament.
The report not only addresses Cologne, but also deals with three other cities in North Rhine-Westphalia. It states that, in connection with New Year’s Eve, there has now been a total of 982 criminal charges filed: 821 in Cologne (359 of them relating to sexual offences), 113 in Düsseldorf (69 due to sexual offences), 28 in Dortmund (including 4 sexual offences) and 20 in Bielefeld (5 sexual offences).

I don't know if there's anything as reliable more recently than that.

 

[butchersapron]

What is the left wing view on this? Please tell me.

It's really hard to find any proper figures on NYE in Cologne. How many people have filed complaints, what for, how many people have been arrested / charged. It'll die soon anyway, as a story, all that will be left are the ripples made by the right so not to worry.

I thought you were aware and had dismissed the left-wing view on this? Maybe you can fill me in on what is you've dismissed?

Now figures are hard to find but before they are free to be bandied around as fact. Ghe used in conjunction with openly racist bollocks discredited years ago. That last line is designed to suggest - yet again - only i care about the women here (and women in general, the left are too busy looking after muslim sensibilities). How does doing the former help that?

 

[bimble]

I thought you were aware and had dismissed the left-wing view on this? Maybe you can fill me in on what is you've dismissed?

Now figures are hard to find but before they are free to be bandied around as fact. Ghe used in conjunction with openly racist bollocks discredited years ago. That last line is designed to suggest - yet again - sigh, only i care about the women here *and women in general). How does doing the former help that?

Let's talk tomorrow maybe, after our respective hangovers have worn off, because I'm not going to defend myself from an accusation that I've been posting " openly racist bollocks discredited years ago" unless you can quote me doing that.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

The 800ish figure sourced to German prosecutors seems to come from Associated Press, dated 19th.

Number of complaints in Cologne attacks continues to grow

 

[butchersapron]

Let's talk tomorrow maybe, after our respective hangovers have worn off, because I'm not going to defend myself from an accusation that I've been posting " openly racist bollocks discredited years ago" unless you can quote me doing that.

Oslo figures - openly used on here to back up the facts produced by you and others. You don't need to have posted them yourself - that's not how this game works. Not after this many pages.

And i don't believe for a second that you don't know how the game is played.

 

[bimble]

Oslo figures - openly used on here to back up the facts produced by you and others. You don't need to have posted them yourself - that's not how this game works. Not after this many pages.

As said before, the number of sexual assaults in Cologne is anyones guess, feel free to google. It started at 60, now it's probably in the 500s. What is the left-wing response to this again?

 

[butchersapron]

As said before, the number of sexual assaults in Cologne is anyones guess, feel free to google. It started at 60, now it's probably in the 500s. What is the left-wing response to this again?

Again, you tell me - you've dismissed it. So what is it? Hiding stuff? Lying? Posting fake numbers as fact? Confusing things?

 

[bimble]

Again, you tell me - you've dismissed it. So what is it? Hiding stuff? Lying? Posting fake numbers as fact? Confusing things?

No, honestly I don't know what the left's response to this is.
And I wonder if that's why there's about 3 posters here.

 

[butchersapron]

No, honestly I don't know what the left's response to this is.
And I wonder if that's why there's about 3 posters here.

You've spent 30+ posts disparaging the left's response to this, yet you don't know what it is? Is that a tactical ignorance?

The reason there's so few posters from the left on this thread is because it's a cesspit - one where people have gone from being angry about an issue to palling up with a person pretending to be angry about that issue but who comes with some long runing baggage to defending that baggage. All the while under a barrage of anti-left smears and lies. Classic example of the methodology. All things to all men.

 

[bimble]

You've spent 30+ posts disparaging the left's response to this, yet you don't know what it is? Is that a tactical ignorance?

The reason there's so few posters from the left on this thread is because it's a cesspit - one where people have gone from being angry about an issue to palling up with a person pretending to be angry about that issue but who comes with some long runing baggage to defending that baggage. All the while under a barrage of anti-left smears and lies. Classic example of the methodology. All things to all men.

Maybe it is a cesspit. But.. how did it get that way? Is it because 'posters from the left' have nothing to say here and would rather write about which biscuits they dislike the most etc?
I'm not CR's pal at all but am still really angry about an issue, which is an actual issue, not a figment of right wing media propaganda etc, not a normal part of drunken public celebrations etc no, it's a real thing, mass sexual assault by many men at once in public spaces, and I'm angry about it and about the fact that nobody apparently has a clue what to do about it.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Yet you're happy to engage and further a narrative designed pretty much to either sideline any left-wing view being expressed as they're all liberal pussies. It's why there's a about 6 people on this thread - the leads being a liberal and a third positionist.

That's bollox. What left wing view? There is only silence....

There are few on this thread because basically the twisted petty identity politics logic that has replaced class politics on the left, and that is peddled by so called middle class do gooders with no sense of real life consequences, and who have been attracted to progressive politics not thru collective struggle but thru an individual/personal sense of rebellion, can't stomach the subject in question because they carry around a dreaded calculus or can't grasp that ordinary people are concerned about this issue and should be seperated from the far right. They have placed themselves in a straight jacket and are now historically useless .

What is your solution to these attacks and the subsequent coup offered to the far right? You sound like others who have come on to with the sole purpose to obfuscate.

 

[butchersapron]

That's bollox. What left wing view. There is only silence....

There are few on this thread because basically the twisted petty identity politics logic that has replaced class politics on the left, and that is peddled by so called middle class do gooders with no sense of real life consequences, and who have been attracted to progressive politics not thru collective struggle but thru an individual/personal sense of rebellion, can't stomach the subject in question because they carry around a dreaded calculus or can't grasp that ordinary people are concerned about this issue and should be seperated from the far right. They have placed themselves in a straight jacket and are now historically useless .

I rest my case. Why would i bother with this? Why esp would i bother with this when placed alongside the openly racist - and rarely challenged, certainly nor from you - ravings of CR? Get to fuck. The working class can actually spot this sort of desperate opportunism as well as anyone.

 

[Anudder Oik]

I rest my case. Why would i bother with this? Why esp would i bother with this when placed alongside the openly racist - and rarely challenged, certainly nor from you - ravings of CR? Get to fuck. The working class can actually spot this sort of desperate opportunism as well as anyone.

What CR has said reflects a general working class (non PC filtered) reaction to this issue. Do you know any Working class people?

 

[butchersapron]

What CR has said reflects a general working class (non PC filtered) reaction to this issue. Do you know any Working class people?

Is it lol they say? lol?

 

[Anudder Oik]

Is it lol they say? lol?

What is your solution? Don't give it the lols and trivial stuff. I know you are capable of giving very articulate informative opinions on Urban.

How is the "left" going to counter attempts by our rulers to now ram thru a massive breach in the minimum wage, so as to "integrate" these million and a half new arrivals?

IMF recommends paying refugees below the minimum wage

No one on the left is even thinking along these lines. Class politics are dead.

I support immigration but not mass immigration. It can only benefit capital.